No. 25 - Using Nine-Centered Healing Arts with Karen Scholle
I invited my go-to Reiki practitioner, Karen Scholle, into the Wellness Club to share her personal experiences using Reiki as a Nine-Centered healing modality. As a Mountains person with an Appetite, Karen shares how she uses her classic reiki teaching after studying the Human Design system throughout the pandemic. Karen transformed this healing modality to fit a Nine-Centered energy system instead of a Seven-Chakra system, simultaneously unlocking all-new abilities within her.
Karen and I discuss the concept of a changing world, growing awareness around neurodiversity, and the importance of accommodating all individuals with different needs as we navigate a changing era.
Here's my friend's beautiful Colour Palette:
KAREN SCHOLLE
Design Type: 1/4 SPLENIC PROJECTOR
Colour Palette: Appetite / Mountains / Probability / Innocence
Here's a Highlight of her InSights:
What is Reiki's impact on Emotional and Physical Health
How do Reiki and Human Design fit together
How can Reiki conduit Nine-Centered Energy Healing
What it felt like for Karen to be raised as an American and Korean kid
Being raised in a family fixed on assimilating for survival
Embracing Neurodiversity with different healing tools
Experimenting with balancing Confidence and Approachability in our work
Karen’s cultural background and relationship with healing modalities
Find Karen's work at:
karenscholle.com
Instagram
Human Design Reading
Stabilize your Aura: 9 Centered Reiki
Vaness Henry: 0:00
I'm so scared. I'm so scared for my husband to be mad. Can you hear me?
Karen Scholle: 0:05
I mean I've, I've been hearing you great this whole time.
Vaness Henry: 0:08
I hear where I was like, let's get your mic set up. Oh, let's get your headphones.
Vaness Henry: 0:12
I'm fucking broken over here. I'm hum- I'm mortified, humiliated. It's Vaness Henry. You're listening to Insights, my private podcast exclusively for community members like you. Here's my latest insight. I've invited my friend, Karen onto the show today, who is maybe I'm going to go on record saying, I think, my first mountains person that I spoke to. Which Karen, this is so interesting because I love mountains people. I just get surrounded by them. I love the way these people exist and live.
Vaness Henry: 0:56
Anyway, welcome to the show, Karen.
Karen Scholle: 1:00
Thank you so much.
Vaness Henry: 1:05
Karen is a 1-4 splenic projector. She's a mountains person, she has an appetite color, so she's a consecutive eater with outer vision. She also has a view of probability and is one of my favorites. Innocence motivation, love, innocence. Was raised by an innocence motivation mother. Love, innocence motivation. So we're going to kind of be looking at you through that lens. But the reason I invited you onto the show today is you're my go-to Reiki practitioner and we do distance Reiki together, and a reason I was so drawn to your work was because you positioned it as nine-centered Reiki. Can you go off and tell me a little bit about this and what this is?
Karen Scholle: 1:43
So you already know about Reiki because you've studied it. I was taught Reiki in a seven chakra model, which is the traditional framework. So the idea is that we can tap into a field of universal energy and, as a practitioner who's been attuned to that energy, I can then play with it. So that's what I learned. I learned how to tap into that energy and play with it, and then I was like playing by the rules and totally.
Vaness Henry: 2:12
And what are? What are the rules?
Karen Scholle: 2:14
Well, the rules, I mean the structure of Reiki, is that you know, we tap in, we direct energy toward the recipient. We don't necessarily talk to the recipient about the experience on our end, because that could interfere with the recipient's experience Right, and we move through the centers top to bottom and actually their chakras, like in tradition. So it's seven centers straight down, and I learned it that way and I practiced it that way for a long time. But very early in my practice of Reiki I was like I don't, I don't know about this, like what do we really have seven chakras? Because if there are nine centers, what am I leaving out? And so I had this like mental laundry of I'm fully, I'm like all in on human design, I believe it, I'm working with it, I'm experimenting with it. I'm like all in on human design, I believe it, I'm working with it.
Vaness Henry: 3:06
I'm experimenting with it and how does this fit with my other tools? Yeah, totally, they fit together.
Karen Scholle: 3:09
So I was like, let me play with it. So I started doing self Reiki and literally like imagining a body graph laid over my body, totally Tapping into ego, tapping into the spleen you know, solar plexus is all emotions and I was playing with that for a good long while and I started feeling sensations, I started seeing colors, I started having this whole sensory experience around nine centers. And then I spent a good long while being afraid of talking about it, of course, even though it was in it, because, like you know, first line mental definition, blah, blah, blah. There are a lot of reasons in my design that I'm I'm very much a dive into the foundation and get the full scope, the full depth of the totally. But I was having results. I was like excited about it and so I kind of tiptoed into like an offering model, like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna gently suggest that maybe I'm doing something a little different. Eat easily.
Vaness Henry: 4:06
Yeah, very quietly. Let's see what the people say. What would my network say?
Karen Scholle: 4:10
Let me tiptoe into this and see. And then I started having like bigger and more experiences and it was just getting clearer on my end that this is something you know.
Vaness Henry: 4:21
Let's tap into your projector brilliance for just one second. Then why are we so? Why are we so quiet when we're excited about these new things, these mutative things that we're doing, we're in these awareness studies? Why are we so afraid to share what we're learning?
Karen Scholle: 4:37
man, I, you know, for me it's so much about. Am I going to get this wrong? You know, totally underlying fear.
Vaness Henry: 4:45
I'm going to call me an idiot.
Karen Scholle: 4:47
Yeah, Well, and I mean, there's childhood conditioning, there's like socialization. There is the way that Western civilization focuses on logic as the only thing you know like logic is valuable. Stories are not. Tradition is valuable. We have to respect our elders. This brings in some of my Korean help, like heritage. There's a cultural component for me about not messing around with the original, you know.
Vaness Henry: 5:13
So mom is Korean. Mom is Korean, and so is she the one who taught you this teaching. Is she the one who taught you Reiki?
Karen Scholle: 5:21
She's not Okay she's not my mom, ok. So my parents met while my dad was in the Air Force. So my mom was born and raised in Korea. My dad is from Dodge City, kansas, typical white guy. He looked like Robert Redford in his younger days. Now he gets more of the Anthony Bourdain. Like oh, you look like that guy, anthony Bourdain. Like Ooh, you look like that guy. Yeah, like classic handsome football star, like quarterback vibes, like all American kid.
Vaness Henry: 5:50
Yeah, karen, you have a look like you have a look.
Karen Scholle: 5:52
I mean.
Vaness Henry: 5:54
I'm obsessed with your look.
Vaness Henry: 5:56
You have a look because you know you. You present Korean, but you've got like golden hair, like a caramel hair and it's. You came on this call and it was like the most bushy hair of it. I was like, oh my God, my breath is taken away. And you have this like mid-century Bauhaus type of style behind you. I'm always so captivated and I was like, what is this? She's got such a look and such a mixture. But I couldn't place it until getting to know you and you were like I have a white dad and I have a Korean mom. Here's a story. They fell in love and I am here, but there's obviously traditions that came from both these sides.
Karen Scholle: 6:29
Yeah, okay, and it's very common with, you know, people who immigrate to the US Like the focus is assimilation, the focus is on, you know, becoming American Totally, and so there was a lot of like storytelling and kind of mythology that we heard about when we were kids, but not a lot of like I'm going to teach you the language, I'm going to teach you how to be a Korean person, because we were because I'm I'm busy assimilating into the white culture of America and I'm not busy teaching you about our shared Korean heritage. Exactly.
Vaness Henry: 6:59
It's a survival thing, you know totally, oh my God.
Karen Scholle: 7:02
And my mom's story is wild. Like her parents escaped North Korea on foot. They walked over a mountain with their two kids and then, like, found a boat, like it is, and here you are and here I am, and here.
Karen Scholle: 7:18
I am, yeah, and so my mom's heritage is Korean, my dad's heritage is German and I grew up in the Midwest. I was born in 1978. You know, I was like this little mixed race kid in a sea of not mixed race people. So, yeah, there, there was a lot about my childhood experience that made me want to not draw too much attention to myself by being different. Okay, because I was walking around with that on my face Like I couldn't help but be told how different I was. So when I'm, you know, when I bump into Reiki and I'm like, ooh, this could be cool, I could do something different with it, there was still that part of me that was like, ah, is that safe, you know?
Vaness Henry: 7:58
Yeah, is that safe? What are they going to say? Am I disrespecting someone or something within me? How did you move through that?
Karen Scholle: 8:05
That's a good question. It's incremental. Incremental evidence gathering, like so much of my experience in life, is like there's a point where I get enough information and everything just kind of goes boop, click, click, click, yep, boop. That logical framework clicks in and I'm like, oh, I see it, I got it, it's done, I don't have to think about this anymore. And at some point that happened for me through having repeated experiences with people where I was feeling it like I couldn't argue with the sensation.
Vaness Henry: 8:35
And if you're among safe people, why not? Why not let it kind of come out there Totally?
Karen Scholle: 8:40
Exactly.
Vaness Henry: 8:41
When I started sorry, go ahead no-transcript without very second line without realizing I was kind of getting this call. But I do have carry somewhat of a classic shamanic experience of kind of coming near death, being acquainted with death in a way, developing a relationship with death, and then being able to navigate reality a little bit differently now that you are able to kind of communicate on that more of a spirit plane. And that shamanic path is what led me to studying Reiki. Reiki was actually the very first, the very first thing I studied, and then went into Feng Shui, something that we were talking about just before the call.
Vaness Henry: 9:45
A big practice in feng shui is this is an ancient system back to the Tang dynasty, and this is thousands of years ago. And if that study and system cannot be modernized, it has no use for the general public. And one of the modernizations was, you know, mountain. Energy doesn't necessarily need to be the mountain, it can be a building. It will influence the energetic field around us in the same way. And so how are these things positioned around you? And just like the flow of a river is creating that traffic of energy, same with a road or a street. And these are just examples of the modernization that didn't exist in some of the feng shui studies, that it has to modernize with us, otherwise it's kind, it's not useful to us and it will then unfortunately fall away and will cease to exist, which is actually what is tragic. We would lose that deep medicine. But there is this part of us that gets sort of and there is a there is a great reason for this like where we get very traditional and we want to preserve that culture and that's essential and also that can create limitations in a mutating world where everyone is kind of designed to grow A lot of little mountain tidbits in there too, sitting in front of a little mountains person here. When I talk about the variables, I think people are starting to understand now that I have a Feng Shui background. They can hear the way I will talk about it, they'll realize it's different and, like you said, it makes things click. You know all of a sudden my Feng Shui background, the shamanic arts. When you put that with human design, it was like, oh, look here, like look at this.
Vaness Henry: 11:27
And as I was 16, going through cancer treatment, having a cocktail of chemotherapies, my very first alternative medicine treatment was Reiki and the practitioner was related to me, so I felt safe. It was like my mom's first cousin, it was like a second aunt or something to me. And she had asked you know cause you can either touch someone physically or just kind of keep your hands within their aura, and I wanted to be touched. Um, I also have a sense of touch in my environment, which is just cute, looking back. And she had placed her hands on me and was kind of facilitating top down through the chakras, like you said, and she had placed her hands on me and was kind of facilitating top down through the chakras, like you said, and she started hacking up stuff. She started hacking up, hacking up and she had to kind of stop because she was hacking. And I watched her hack up this stuff and I passed out and it was the first time I had slept. I had been up for three days.
Vaness Henry: 12:20
My tumor was such a size that it was compressing the lungs and I wasn't getting enough oxygen so I had to go on some really acute steroids to try and shrink it so that I wouldn't pass away in my sleep. So while I was going through that intense classic medicine, I was receiving this complementary medicine with Reiki and my first treatment was her having this huge episode working stuff up and I was like what the fuck is she doing to me? Oh, oh, my God, like it was so unbelievable to me. But then I passed out and I and I had the best sleep like that I've had. And I woke up and I had felt really different and went to and she had, she was gone and then talked to my mom, was like what happened to me. And so, because I was so impacted by that, I continued with Reiki through my entire chemotherapy treatment and in the children's hospital in Winnipeg where I went and had my treatment, there was a Reiki room and there were practitioners who were in there that cancer patients could come in.
Vaness Henry: 13:15
It was very accepted. It was not like considered alternative or taboo. It was very, if anything, it was romanticized. You know. It was like people will touch you in a comforting way and they're not, they're just going to basically hold you and hold your energy. I was very attracted to that and so once I got through treatment and I was it was a year later, I'm now diagnosed with I'm not excuse me, I'm not diagnosed. I moved into remission. I saw her out and was like what the hell was that? And she put me in touch with someone and I went through.
Vaness Henry: 13:47
That was my very first thing, like 18, I went and had my training and I but I only did two levels I didn't go, I didn't feel I needed the mastery, cause I was like I'm not going to teach this.
Vaness Henry: 13:56
And that was the moment I got attuned, cause you're kind of you have an attunement when you do Reiki and I received this visual of a big black Jaguar with violet eyes and I was kind of taken aback by it and followed me throughout the whole training and we were sharing what we saw and the woman kind of looked at me, the practitioner kind of looked at me and she's giving them my little certificate and you know I'm complete and she's like that's a very powerful omen in some other studies I just want to introduce you to.
Vaness Henry: 14:28
And so I was kind of guided by shamanic practitioners who had recognized I was going in and studying different tools and they were recognizing I was using the tools differently and so kind of like you, one of the first when I started giving Reiki, I had to tell people what I saw and I would pull animals out of people, I would pull whales out of their stomachs, I would pull parrots out of their throat, I would pull animals out of their system. And that's when. That's when I was like, that's when she was like come learn about shamanism. You know, I've never done it with like nine centers, because this was before I was human design aware and when I thought of that I just thought that was so brilliant, karen, like I was like, of course, of course, what is your story with learning Reiki? Now that I've shared mine? How did that come into your world? Because everyone kind of has a little story with it.
Karen Scholle: 15:20
My story with Reiki was oh man, I, I had come to a point in my career my former career in high-end retail selling luxury goods.
Vaness Henry: 15:32
But mountains mountains, your mountains, mountains taste, mountains taste, so taste of the environment, variable, like gets little samples of things Yum yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. They're always like you know, and if I imagine you selling luxury goods here, you would love this here. Have a little bit of this, little bit of that. This will do this, this will do that. That's fun.
Karen Scholle: 15:51
It's a hundred percent. I mean we could do a whole hour on me not knowing my design as a Leenik projector in fashion and then like going back and looking at those stories like, oh, no wonder everyone told me their life story in the fitting room. Of course, no wonder I had so much fun selling handbags.
Vaness Henry: 16:08
Yeah, so fun.
Karen Scholle: 16:09
But like I got to a point in that career where I couldn't sustain working, you know, 5060 hour weeks anymore, I quit my job, moved cross country, my marriage imploded, like my life blew up spectacularly around age 40. And in the aftermath of that, as the dust was settling and the pandemic was setting in, I was physically a mess. I had chronic lower back pain, which was crazy to me because my dad's a chiropractor and I never imagined that the chiropractor's daughter was going to have spinal problems. But wow, wow, and I needed something other than yoga, movement supplements, like I needed something else. I was doing what I knew to do and it wasn't moving the needle for me and I was like you know what? Let me, let me see what this for me.
Karen Scholle: 16:59
And I was still emotionally wrought after splitting up with my ex-husband. We had been together for 14 years, oh my God, okay, and I was in a big adjustment, you know, of course, karen. And so I go get this massage and she's got her hands over my body and I'm feeling these intense sensations and I'm feeling like the lifting of weight and the movement of blockage, and there's no way for me to describe what's happening because it's not musculoskeletal, it's not digestive, like the body systems that I understood. That's not where this was happening. Systems that I understood. That's not where this was happening.
Karen Scholle: 17:48
And then, the day after, that I started a period that was the heaviest, like most outrageous release of physical yeah yeah and and the crying and like the emotional release. Like this was a huge moment for me and it touched on the stuff that I actually wasn't addressing at all up until that point. Like I was really working from the outside in on these physical things and doing kind of like 3d normie stuff, like going to therapy, you know.
Vaness Henry: 18:16
Right, because there's obviously going to be huge grief in separating from somebody that, no matter if it's a pleasant or an unpleasant separation, when we're extracting our energy from something that we've been plugged into for a long time. Other projectors have told me that there can be this feeling of like being put on the shelf, like I now don't have access to, like this familiar thing that was yeah, you're nodding and you know I don't share that experience. I'm just kind of regurgitating it. But I can only imagine, you know, the comedown of trying to now reestablish your life and you know, around 40, there's the Uranus opposition.
Vaness Henry: 18:51
There's some big astrology that happens that you know we're really being called to evaluate what you've done so far. And is it in alignment or do you need to make shifts? And it sounds like you needed to make shifts and going to a practitioner and then feeling the weight, burden, grief, heaviness that is trapped in the body. I'm of the mind that when we don't deal with that and we don't figure out how to move that through the system, that's what gets clogged, that's what turns into illness, that's what can turn into severe illness like tumors and things or auto immune things, and it's challenging to explain what's happening when you go see someone and there you feel these shifts and then you get this crazy period, like that's just an example, too, of the shedding releasing that the body is going, is going through, like that's heavy.
Vaness Henry: 19:39
So you're going through some things, you're going to therapy, you're doing some normie stuff, but then you're like I'm going to, I'm gonna dabble with reiki, I feel called to it, I feel connected to it. I had a reiki massage. I felt things change. That's now I'm gonna imagine the one, for his interest is now peaked and they're like what the fuck was that? How do I, you know?
Karen Scholle: 20:01
let me dive headfirst into this, because, because now, this is my singular obsession. Like consecutive appetite is like oh it's watermelon season, let's eat.
Karen Scholle: 20:12
So I went so hard, so hard on that. And then here comes human design, and so I had these. These two systems show up, pretty much one after the other, and I'm sitting here with no career and a pandemic and an empty house. You know when I thought I was going to be living with a husband and my adult child and she ended up moving, and so I was like, alone, recovering, had just discovered these two systems, and there you go.
Vaness Henry: 20:40
You're in that class of 2020. There's this group of people who came in at the pandemic and were locked in our homes and it's kind of an ideal time to do this. You're kind of forced to be with yourself, You're forced to feel your own energy. You know it was really a tragically holy time, you know, like awful things going on, and then the calibration acclimation we were all kind of individually going through was was wild, and I was watching this group of people through the 2020s come on, learn about it and they had a different study experience because of that intensity of being home or only being with a certain number of people, and I found those people really connected with each other online in a special way, which is really cool because you're home and you needed a community and you needed a network and so you're into this too, and there was these kind of cool clicking that went on.
Vaness Henry: 21:35
Now that I've been in this study for some time, after a while people will go ahead first into human design, but after a while, people I resonate with anyway will start to use it with other modalities and I, as a short person, get really excited about that, Because when we mutate things and mix things together, like we learn in the kitchen. Something new can come out of it, which can be really, really exciting. I was drawn to 900 Reiki right away when I saw that you had I'm also drawn to your look.
Vaness Henry: 22:05
Though you know like I'm very, I can get very swept away by someone's looks and their beauty and their appearance and how they present, like all these books on your shelf behind you. I'm like, oh my God, the way I would thumb through all those books to see what she's reading. Oh my gosh, sorry about that. Anyway, where was I before I got distracted by, okay, your beautifulness? Oh, when I first had, when I first had Reiki with you, something that stood out to me right away was you saw colors. You saw colors in certain energy centers and I was like, okay, outer vision, I see you, that's very interesting. So then your design became very interesting to me.
Vaness Henry: 22:37
While I was having Reiki from you and I could feel, the first time we had, the first time I had long distance Reiki with you, I felt perhaps you were a bit nervous and sharing with me and I was like tell me everything, you see some weird shit. Tell me, I don't care. And you were like I pulled this like golden horse out of your spleen and it had this sort of Chinese red in it and I was like I'm listening at the time. At the time I had a golden horse for a backdrop on my desktop. There's no way anyone would have known this, okay, and I was like holy shit. I went to my husband. I was like this woman, she just pulled, she just pulled this out of my fucking body. Look what's on my desktop right now. That was so cool, karen, like I had a whole moment.
Karen Scholle: 23:20
It was okay. So it was okay so that that particular treatment for me was, it was like somebody lifted a veil and I could see things more clearly in that treatment session with you than I had been seeing them before, and it really felt like like the mist evaporated or something, and I started seeing things in really sharp relief and the colors were saturated and I was getting like what stood out to me was that it was environments that I was seeing and I was like, oh my god oh right because, like Vanessa's, the environment queen in my head love that.
Vaness Henry: 23:53
So so then, but also, but also. Let's just, let's just say you are making that up. Let's just say your mind is pulling that in. Okay, let's just let's entertain that. So much of my work in shamanic journeying is you are making it up, it is your imagination. You have a wound there that you don't trust your imagination. What might you discover if we heal that wound and you trust yourself again? Because, yeah, what if you do have these brilliant abilities? You know what I mean. So I kind of came at you and I was very pushy. I was like go do it, do it, tell me, like go there. And you were like invitation.
Karen Scholle: 24:27
But like I needed something to come into my universe to nudge me you know I was I was not going to, I wasn't going to nudge myself, fair.
Karen Scholle: 24:36
Or maybe I would, maybe I would have, but you did it when you did it and that pushed me into investigating that in a different way, in an affirmative, louder, clearer way, and it has changed my Reiki practice and the way that I talk to my clients. And now it's just part of the experience. Like I changed the copy on my website because I was like I want to chat with you about this Because, yeah, like when I first started performing Reiki, I would get these sort of blobby, colorful, cloudy impressions and they're beautiful and the color quality was there. But then, as I've progressed in my practice, I'm seeing animals, I'm seeing environments, I'm seeing like fireworks, like I was talking with a reflector and I was like I don't know why, but I'm seeing like 20 or 30 blue butterflies on a rock in the middle of a creek. It's detailed imagery that's now coming through for me and what's amazing is like I'll say stuff and I'm like I don't know what this means. This has no meaning for me, but this is just what I'm seeing.
Vaness Henry: 25:50
And the other person. I'm sorry, I'm just saying my mic's not plugged in. I'm so sorry. Oh, my husband is gonna fucking kill me when he edits this. He's like you don't have your mercury Derek, mercury things.
Karen Scholle: 25:55
Let me just see, well, this is a good time to pause, because now my dog is having some needs, so I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go okay, cool, let's fix our shit.
Vaness Henry: 26:01
Let's fix our shit. Yeah, I'm so scared. I'm so scared for my husband to be mad. Can you hear me?
Karen Scholle: 26:10
I mean I've, I've been hearing you great this whole time.
Vaness Henry: 26:13
Here we're all like let's get your mic set up. Oh, let's get your headphones. I'm fucking broken over here. I'm human. I'm mortified, humiliated.
Karen Scholle: 26:21
Did we move into the third line already?
Vaness Henry: 26:23
Like I am, so embarrassed, thank, humiliated. Did we move into the third line already, like I am so embarrassed? Thank you for your grace in not thinking I'm absolutely ridiculous. See, I didn't. My ego just needs to be checked all the time, right, when I think I'm here. It's going to be like listen, peasant, your mic's not on. You know what I mean Whoopsie, whoopsie. Let me jump back in here. Let me jump back in and we'll see what we do with this little edit.
Vaness Henry: 26:42
But something that struck me about your work was when you pulled animals out, because that was what started happening to me. I have a very strong connection with animals and actually my relationship with facilitating Reiki is what led me to designing inner expeditions, which is a shamanic journey where you travel inward to reveal your inner landscapes. And when you come to me and say there's four butterflies on a rock, that means something very specific to me, because I know what the rock will symbolize, I know what the butterflies will symbolize, I know what the blue will symbolize. So when you came to me and telling me about these colors you were getting and these animals, it meant a lot to me personally and you were kind of like I don't know if it's going to mean anything a lot to me personally, and you were kind of like I don't know if it's going to mean anything.
Vaness Henry: 27:31
So part of our dynamic that I felt the. It was like I could feel it affirming you or something. When I said to you this is what those things mean to me and you were like whoa, wow. And so I was like this is immediately affecting my life, like a horse in the spleen or whatever we had done. I was like you know, the horse can be such a sign of strength as well, and it was just that was affirming for me to hear from you and so I wanted to send it back and kind of like affirm it back. And so then I was like I'll be back next season when I need my little tune up. You know what I mean and I hope you're giving me all these colors again. Can you take me through the process, like for somebody who doesn't know what distance Reiki is or what Reiki is, can you take me through the process of those and then also how you do it for nine centers?
Karen Scholle: 28:13
So with okay. So if I'm performing Reiki on a client, a lot of this takes place in my mind, and this is what I was taught that like I should have a sort of like mental treatment room yes, little office, little practice space. And so when I'm doing distance Reiki, I am first visualizing my Reiki space, and so I have this little mountain cabin that I do Reiki in in my mind. Oh my God, I love that, and like I could geek out on the architecture there. It's a very particular vision that I have. Oh my God.
Vaness Henry: 28:45
Tell me, just tell me, come on Please tell me. I'm teleported. I'm teleported but I just sell fancy ass furniture and work with architects and interior designers as like one of my jobs in a past life and the way I am living for the subtle architects shit that's going on behind you like what's the story there?
Karen Scholle: 29:03
I mean yes, I'm, I'm obsessed with graphic design, art, architecture.
Vaness Henry: 29:09
Yeah, yeah, you can see everything, Bauhaus, everything so my little treatment center in the mountain.
Karen Scholle: 29:15
is this glass A-frame home with big? It's a mountain visual.
Karen Scholle: 29:21
Yeah, I mean it's it's a mountain house mountain house and I've got a big treatment table that looks out on the snowy Vista and I invite my client in amazing lie down on the table and I connect into that energy and I have a way that you know, I close my eyes and I put my hands over my heart and I can start to feel this energy moving through me. It's like I'm literally intentionally tapping into it. I feel it pouring into me physically. There are sensations there and then it starts to flow like overflow out through my hands and so it's like I fill up my own cup and then, once I've got overflow going, then I can start play with the overflow. So then I direct that through my hands and I start at the crown and I move into the Ajna and I'm just like using my hands.
Vaness Henry: 30:10
You're seeing or something, though, hey, yeah.
Karen Scholle: 30:13
So as I'm directing energy in, it's like, it's really interesting, Like with generator types and with projector types. I usually get in there right away and I feel this instant connection and I can start feeling into the quality.
Vaness Henry: 30:27
Of course the aura would come into play. I didn't even think of that. Oh my gosh.
Karen Scholle: 30:30
Like I, the first time I did work on a reflector.
Karen Scholle: 30:34
I was five minutes in there and I was like I feel like it's just going boink, boink, just moving out of the way. I didn't feel like I was hooked in. It felt like I was disconnected. And then something happened and it was like I got some traction. I was like, oh, there it is. And then and then I went in and I had a very sparkly experience with a reflector. Oh, and later on, when I talked with her, she was like oh, yeah, about five minutes in. I was like, oh, I have to let her in, wow and then she opened here in what is going on.
Karen Scholle: 31:05
There is that fucking amazing, like yeah, and then with manifestor, like with you, oh yeah, what's the closed aura?
Vaness Henry: 31:11
it wasn't closed I'm like, come on in there, I was right in there, it was so obviously you were like inviting me in, welcoming me.
Karen Scholle: 31:17
There was no resistance. And when I hook in, it's's like I am getting an impression through light and sound and tactile feeling and like temperature changes in my hands and body, and I just start feeling into what's the quality of the energy here, and sometimes it's really hot, sometimes it feels really alive, sometimes it feels stagnant or stuck or cloudy, and so, you know, language comes in for me and I can't even like in the abstract it's hard for me to describe. Once I'm in there, it's like I know what's happening, I'm connected to something and I'll start to get like a picture, or it's like a vibration, a temperature. Something is happening there and I also get a sense of like the energy is moving quickly, slowly, it's big. The amplitude or like volume of energy is big or small, and it's like I'm having a spiritual experience with a person, oh for sure, and I can feel different things. You know, sometimes like I'll get to somebody's root and it's like Whoa, this feels heavy.
Vaness Henry: 32:27
I've had that. I've had that feeling yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you know how do I pull this out, how do I move this through?
Karen Scholle: 32:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah, something's tangled Something. Yeah, you know like there's sludge or something. So I totally kind of yes it's hard to describe, but it's like there's goo or there's like there's dust or like old dirt or like we need to clean the cobwebs out of the space or it'll be. I mean, sometimes I go into somebody's centers and it's like there's so much joy here, you know like, oh, that's nice, emotionally really surprising, because usually people aren't coming from.
Vaness Henry: 33:04
You know, I feel great yeah, like usually they're coming to me like like I'm having serious stomach problems.
Karen Scholle: 33:10
My last three periods were outrageous and I'm pretty sure I'm in adrenal burnout and that's that's the place I'm coming from, and then I'll feel into it.
Vaness Henry: 33:18
Okay, let's go see, yeah, do you prefer to have your hands in aura or physically touching someone? Man?
Karen Scholle: 33:24
actually I love doing distance reiki. The more distance okay me and the recipient, the better. When I'm in aura mountains, of course, I can't keep my eyes closed.
Karen Scholle: 33:34
I can't keep from talking like there are aura mechanics that I can't help. I went over and did reiki for my mom the other day and she was laying in her bed and she was like, should I close my eyes? And I was like I mean that would be nice, but I bet you don't. And she was like I her bed and she was like should I close my eyes? And I was like I mean that would be nice, but I bet you don't. And she was like I bet I don't either. And then we were just like chit-chatting the whole time you know and my experience of it was completely different.
Karen Scholle: 33:53
I was like I don't know if I did anything or if we were just like having this connection.
Vaness Henry: 33:57
Yeah, but having this connection is maybe what was needed and it doesn't matter, I don't think at the end of the day, you know, if that's what's facilitating the connection and like I, I tend to think in either or terms, and then I always end up catching myself and going, oh, it's like probably both.
Karen Scholle: 34:12
And then the weird third thing that I didn't think of and I'll figure that out later. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah so yeah, in-person Reiki for me is I mean, it's nice, it's nice to share space with people, but I love the distance Reiki experience because it's like it's so peaceful, it's so quiet. I can tune completely into all of that data that I'm getting. That's not noise or touch or aura mechanics.
Vaness Henry: 34:36
And I think sometimes people don't understand what distance Reiki is like. How can I break if I'm not with you? The way I was taught is you would I would have like a teddy bear or something Like I would have like a physical item and would just treat that as the individual and touch the energy centers on that stuffed animal and kind of. Then why I? Why distance Reiki worked well for me was because I was getting symbolism, I was getting imagery, like you, and then I would communicate that with the person, so as if they got something. And I have to tell you, like, as a recipient, I am someone who likes to proactively get Reiki, like I. Like I just like to tune in. I don't necessarily have something that you know I need to work on unless I do. Do you know what I mean? Like, I like it as that sort of check-in and the most rewarding part is to get that information back. Like, what did the person experience? And you know that's kind of a miss in original Reiki for me because, like you, I was wanting to talk and I found they were wanting to talk to me too, you know, but the traditional practice, yeah, it is more of a mute, respectful type of thing. I think it is so interesting when I hear about somebody's chosen craft or trade, such as Reiki, and then I see their design, because I want to point out some things to you.
Vaness Henry: 35:50
In your design, I first see this striking, totally open head and I'm like no wonder she's seeing what she's seeing. It's able to be plopped right in there. No wonder she likes to be at a distance and give distance Reiki. She's mountains, she's way up in this other perspective and that taste tone in the mountain is really interesting because if you're in an aligned state, you will be really chatty, right, like oh, it's going to want to just spill out of you and so, in theory, to hold that back would not be a natural state for you. So if we're just going with the natural state, I'm doing distance Reiki, I'm plugging in in my special way. I'm getting the imagery. I have this totally open head, I have outer vision. It's going to come in in this specific way. I'm going to see it. However, I'm going to see it and I'm going to pick up little samples in each energy center, because I am this I navigate on the sense of taste. That's cool, like we can just see what you're doing through your, through the depths of your design. If anything, I find when we look at people this way, it's more affirming to some of these complimentary medicines, cause it's like I know exactly how she's doing that sense.
Vaness Henry: 36:57
And then feeling and touch, cognition or sense as people who do Reiki, and so my theories in that is because the second tone gets little samples the feeling is really the deep empath, so they plug in and they're actually sensorially experiencing what's being experienced and touch is going and grabbing, handling certain things that are kind of going on there. And when you just think about it like that, I think anyone can learn Reiki. But I think there are some people who have a predisposition to connect with that tool, perhaps more than others, in the same way that someone would connect with astrology or numerology or Feng Shui or journeying. You know what I mean. Like there's I don't think it's an accident that we're drawn to what we're drawn to, yeah, like there's an affinity, there't think it's an accident that we're drawn to, what we're drawn to, yeah, like there's an affinity there.
Karen Scholle: 37:47
There's something about it, something about it made sense to me and you know I grew up in a house with a Korean mom and a white dad, like it was normal in some ways.
Vaness Henry: 37:56
For You're a blend. You're already a blend, so why wouldn't I blend other things that I use?
Karen Scholle: 38:01
Like I had this whole moment in my first year studying human design. I was like what is the Sphinx, what is the Sphinx all about? Like, what is this? Oh my God, tell us, tell us, what is the Sphinx all about? Well, it's a mystery. I'm a Sphinx cross. I'm a Sphinx too, and as an incarnation cross, that's the one and two and the seven and 13. And all four of those gates are in the G center and you know, the easiest thing for me to find out about that was that the Sphinx is about direction and I was like okay, direction, I know what direction is. What's a compass? Let me think about it in those terms. And then I played around with some of the animal imagery of Aquarius, Leo, taurus, scorpio, and then that leads to like lots of sort of animal symbol, symbolism in terms of like okay, we've got a mammal, we've got a bird, we've got something creepy crawly. You know, there's all these different ways to understand it, but absolutely one of the things that smacked me in the face was a compass has four points north, south, east, west, and my mother's heritage is korean and korea was divided into north and south, and my dad's heritage is german and that country was also divided into east and west interesting and then what an interesting what the intersection of these two cultural traditions, and you're cool what the fuck is going on
Karen Scholle: 39:22
like but like, this is how my brain works, right, it's like abstract, abstract. And then like, okay, maybe there's a pattern here and I start pulling things in and then the whole story fills out and that that was kind of part of the whole thing with the nine centered reiki. At some point it was like I think it's brilliant. You know what fuck it. I am both. I can do both, and it doesn't matter what both I'm talking about. I can just be that, because I already am that.
Vaness Henry: 39:48
I'm also a confident woman in my forties. I'll do whatever the fuck I want.
Karen Scholle: 39:53
Dude, I'm 46. Like I care, so little about the things I cared about 10 years ago and it's funny to think back to when I was 40 and I was like, no, I gives no fucks. Yeah, and now at 46, I'm like, oh, babe, wow, I didn't know how many fucks I was still giving and, yeah, what an unburdening, what an unburdening.
Vaness Henry: 40:15
Have there been any other modalities that call to you? Oh man, I feel like I've, or that you've dabbled with in the past.
Karen Scholle: 40:22
Let's see modalities. I mean, my dad is a chiropractor.
Vaness Henry: 40:27
Yeah, that's a cool influence.
Karen Scholle: 40:29
I have been receiving chiropractic treatment, but he also practices acupuncture, so I've been exposed to this meridian traditional model of energy that is non-Western, non-traditional medical. My whole upbringing was being a medical outsider because my dad was dealing with this whole. Chiropractors aren't real doctors.
Vaness Henry: 40:55
The stigma of that, totally, totally.
Karen Scholle: 40:58
But also seeing the impact that he had on those lives. Oldest daughter, I would go down to the office and help file paperwork and meet all of those patients and I would see it. I would hear stories from people who are like your dad you changed my life. He changed my life, Mr Cross of healing by the way, he's cross of healing.
Vaness Henry: 41:18
Yeah, we love cross of healing. Oh boy, do we love it?
Karen Scholle: 41:22
Yeah, I mean it feels like. It feels like home. I'm like oh yeah oh, is that a 58? I love that. Is that? Is that a 10 and a 15? Like I love everything about the like vessel of love and cross of service and how the healing is the intersection of those two crosses. Like I love that story yeah, me too. I like the way you positioned that story Like hello love and service, and right in the middle we have healing. I love that.
Vaness Henry: 41:52
I'm struck by this talk of acupuncture and because acupuncture works with the meridians. Last season I started doing Tai Chi with my husband in the mornings and they in sort of this, guide they will. Instead of saying meridians, I noticed they said channels and I was like this is interesting, this is being positioned as a classic Tai Chi practice. Okay, it's not a fusion of anything else, but when talking about, you know, building your awareness, is there any tingling from this movement? You know, notice this, notice that, notice if there's any, any sensations through your meridians and channels of energy. And I was like, and they said, your centers of energy. And so it's just these little things that I'm like, hmm, we're not saying chakras or chakras, we're saying centers.
Vaness Henry: 42:38
Here, okay, there seems to be an awareness, an expanding awareness, of our own evolutionary process. And like, if we're, if we're talking about the chakras, and there's seven of them top down, the mutation happened in the heart. The mutation happened where the ego split and became the ego and the G center and suddenly the ego pushed to the side, and then we have these awareness centers that also push to the side, but in classic chakras we have the crown. Can you guide me through this? Oh yeah, we don't have an Ajna. Yeah, it's like third eye.
Karen Scholle: 43:13
It's third eye, ajna, is that's Ajna. Yeah, it's from the Hindu tradition. And then, yeah, throat, throat, then we go heart. Then, yeah, anahata, is that right like heart?
Vaness Henry: 43:25
yep, and then solar plexus solar plexus is above that, then sacral, yep, then sacral, then root and then root, so we don't have a spleen in there either, right, so that's? I mean, there was this mutation with, like, the awareness centers. Some of that happened, and so we developed this expanded sensorial system I guess you could say, right, an expanded chakra system. I have heard talk about this expanding even more. You know we're going to get energy centers in our hands. There's all you know. There's all these different things that have been said in different theories and different whatever. What's your thought on that that? What's your take on that?
Karen Scholle: 44:01
I mean, okay, the seven, the seven chakras are the seven major chakras, right right, there are a bunch of other chakras in that, in that old modality, the human design like the ones that go above the head.
Vaness Henry: 44:14
Is that we're talking?
Karen Scholle: 44:15
about. No, I mean like there's a, there's a minor chakra for the spleen in the Hindu Brahman system I am not familiar. Original sort of column of yeah. So like there are minor chakra, minor, yeah, I guess minor chakras Cool Karen.
Vaness Henry: 44:30
I had no idea.
Karen Scholle: 44:42
Man I. I don't know what to say about the future evolution. What I'm seeing right now is the way that traits that have always been kind of assigned to autism spectrum in my life. I'm starting to see how all those symptoms make sense with awakening awareness. Um, let me see, let me see.
Vaness Henry: 44:52
We're going through such a thing with this right now, collectively, you know we are and just understanding even ADHD, autism, this concept of the spectrum we are all on, yeah, and there are varying degrees of expression existence.
Karen Scholle: 45:08
So an example of that is like autistic people have a hard time picking up on visual cues socially Right, like we might. We might say that this autistic person is going to get confused about what's not being said.
Karen Scholle: 45:21
Okay, and another way to look at that is someone who is, you know, if we call that autistic, they might just be noticing that, like what you're saying is not in alignment with who you are, and they're detecting the difference in, like they're detecting a lack of authenticity and that is distressing to their nervous systems and, in a nervous system perspective, that makes perfect sense to me, like there are parts of us that are pointed at the other, looking for signs of safety or danger.
Karen Scholle: 45:53
And safety is coherence, safety is I'm telling you the truth, I I can, I can be what I am and I'm not trying to deceive you. And so in the current cultural paradigm where little white lies and like, oh you know, we have to be polite in public and we have to play these social games that belie our true emotional and nervous system states like that disconnect, it makes perfect sense to me that we would call that autism. We would want to pathologize that because we don't want to rock the boat of the current paradigm. But actually people who are sensitive to that are just plugged into a different kind of truth than what we've been talking about.
Karen Scholle: 46:29
You know, and I don't, want to pathologize that I understand how comforting the diagnosis is for people.
Vaness Henry: 46:37
I've been witnessing that too. But I also wonder, you know, as we continue to evolve, are we even going to need this? I think we won't, is it? I think I agree, like I think it will. I think we're at the time where we do need it. We need to identify it. There is a lot of peace people are getting.
Vaness Henry: 46:51
I actually witness a lot of parents who are, let's say, getting an autism diagnosis for one of their kids and then, or adhd or something, a neurodivergent type of diagnosis, and then, through that support of their child, realizing they too themselves are neurodivergent. And there's a lot of grief because they realize they didn't have the support that they needed. They're not, they have to redefine what they think neurotypical is, et cetera. And I just think, as we continue so it's very essential that we're here and also as we continue down this, I can see that there might may not be a need for that much identification of of these terms anymore because, like you said, well, actually, some of Ross dissertations on autism were really fascinating to me, especially how he got into.
Vaness Henry: 47:36
People who are on the autism spectrum are more evolved. They had the mutation happen before we were ready, and they're an example of where we're going what the future is. So, if you think of that, and as we learn, more and more people who are on the spectrum, who are not receiving the understanding or support that they needed, like the world is just going to change Like it's, it's simply has to just to accommodate that and understand that we all learn differently. This is going to become about the individual and the individual kind of process of learning. I think it's exciting. I do too, you know I think it's, I think I'm.
Karen Scholle: 48:09
I love that you use the word accommodation because I think that is what I think that's at the root of this like phenomenon that we're both seeing, where people are taking so much comfort from the diagnosis because it gives them permission to change behaviors, to change material circumstances permission to accommodate these sensitivities rather than pathologize them and make them bad or try to correct them Like let's actually how do we exist with them, how do we embrace them instead of going against this type of grain?
Vaness Henry: 48:35
Yeah, and like you know, just for my work, if you're going against a grain like that all the time you're going to get sick, you're not supporting yourself in the way like your body's trying to give you this cue. Like you don't like that, we don't do that, it's not working. And then you know, but then from the same thing, I've seen some transformation on some kids who become medicated, or kids who are cause there's a lot of opinions about this, some parents really don't want to do this, and then some kids, you know there was. There was a lot of grief that I saw in a child in my life who was who was diagnosed and did get the medication that they needed, and it was like a different kid and the kid was like I can think, and I thought it was really sad because it was the kid who wanted the medication, you know, and and the parent was kind of like, ah, but the and then seeing the transformation of the kid. Also, there's a parent in my life or an adult, excuse me, in my life who too has become medicated and they're just like there's no more voices going off like crazy in my head, and then there was huge grief in that and realizing you've lived 40 years of your life suffering and not having some type of support that you needed.
Vaness Henry: 49:42
I think my dilemma there is is the answer to medicate them, or is it to adjust the lifestyle to support them? What do you think on that? Like I'm thinking about it from a design perspective, like you know, I don't ever want to interfere with someone if they feel they need medication for anything. I just don't always. I don't know if medication is a long-term solution or if it's more of an acute. That's you know. That's how I would think about it.
Vaness Henry: 50:05
And I wonder, these people who are on the spectrum, if they didn't have we're all on the spectrum but these people who are really struggling and needing support like medication, if they were not submerged in a life and a paradigm like this one, would they need that? They are now, and so I understand that they need it. But if we are expanding into a new type of paradigm where that's going to be the normal, our society is then going to structure to support the majority and if that's the majority, everything's going to shift. And I wonder if it will be so hard to exist, if we will need to be so medicated, if the actual environment itself will shift enough to support the very nature of these people.
Karen Scholle: 50:42
Absolutely agree with that. Medicine, western medicine, surgical intervention, powerful drugs there's a place for all of that Brilliant Absolutely, you know, like of course, of course we need medical intervention sometimes.
Vaness Henry: 50:56
If we break ourselves on the road, doctors are very good at putting us back together.
Vaness Henry: 51:01
Thank God, and also we don't have a great understanding of how each individual system works, and I think it's kind of ridiculous that we go to the doctor and expect the doctor to know so much more about us than we know ourselves. I understand they may be trained in cellular biology and all this, but I know what symptoms I'm having. I know when my cycle starts. I feel this way. I know what symptoms I'm having. I know what. On when my cycle starts, I feel this way. I know that I get this weird chronic thing. They don't know that, yeah. So how can they, how can I be the authority and they be a support on my team? I can have a classic practitioner, I can have complimentary, complimentary medicine, alternative medicine, classic medicine, and these things all just kind of support me as a dynamic individual.
Karen Scholle: 51:42
In a perfect world, I think parents would be emotionally, physically nervous, system-ly regulated, we would not be spending sacral energy from a place of obligation rather than joy.
Karen Scholle: 51:58
We wouldn't have a bunch of their projectors out here trying to force their guidance on people who don't want it. You know we wouldn't have manifestors who are angry because they were allowed to be in their flow, like if everybody got to be in their lane. Then the emotional state for everybody would be so much better. There would be so much less static in the environment, in the atmosphere, in general static and a recognition of like that's not good for you.
Vaness Henry: 52:23
No, no worries, instead of me just putting on, putting my thing that's good for me onto you, cause it's good for me and there's no awareness in me that it's not good for you. You know, can I even tell you the amount of times like somebody cooks me a dinner or something, or cooks me something like here, you love it, and I'm like oh, I don't like mushrooms. Or I don't like this. Like, oh, you have to have the mushrooms on it, otherwise it's not good. It's like but I don't like mushrooms. Well, just try it. It's like, I don't want to try it. It's like I don't like mushrooms. They grow in poo.
Karen Scholle: 52:51
I don't want to eat that but this is like the subtle way that it is totally socially acceptable to not take no for an answer in these little stupid bullshit Like these are meaningless until we accumulate thousands of them over the course of weeks and months and we're constantly being told that our no is not valid, even if even a little thing like that, like try the mushrooms, come on, you'll love it, I love it. I don't like mushrooms, exactly Like I don't care how you cook them, love it.
Vaness Henry: 53:19
I don't like mushrooms, exactly. Like I don't care how you cook them yeah.
Karen Scholle: 53:23
We don't need to spend any of that energy, any of that attention fucking around with your no, your no thank you. So what if we all just left everybody's no thank you alone and we got to like float along with all the saved energy and attention and you know, know, fucking life force that we didn't just waste on that? We would all be in this different state where we could show up and attune curiously with the other instead of being in a state of defense fight flight. Where am I going to get my next?
Vaness Henry: 53:51
you're so right the money coming from.
Karen Scholle: 53:53
I'm fucking panicked because of politics, because of society, because all this shit that's going on, like we're're all under all of this nonstop pressure. Of course, of course we need medicine as like an acute intervention, but it is not a long term solution for a system that is completely broken and like the wheels are falling off, like we are watching the wheels fall off right now.
Vaness Henry: 54:15
Yeah, and we're alive for the wheels falling off. That's, that's what we're here for.
Karen Scholle: 54:20
I mean, that's our responsibility, that's our experience and the feeling that I get increasingly over the last couple of months has been I have never been more sure that I am in my lane and I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, and all that is is being curious about the person in front of me.
Vaness Henry: 54:38
Yeah.
Karen Scholle: 54:39
And that is medicine, and that is medicine that I can easily provide. Like it just comes, and when I do that with people, there's a thing that happens where I'm like okay, but it like the kind of questions that I want to ask. You know the things that I'm curious about. I'm constantly getting in there and I'm just like calibrating compasses all the time. I'm like you really want to be doing that. Is that really how you want to spend your time? Those brilliant projector questions.
Vaness Henry: 55:01
Hey, Are you sure that's what you want to do? Is that absolutely true? Are you sure you're happy?
Karen Scholle: 55:06
It's like, oh God, like, okay, you've been talking about a book deal that's on the table and you're kind of a no for it, but like, we've spent an hour on this. Dude, do you want to write a book right now? Nope, then don't. Then don't. You don't have to trust your body. Yeah, and like these interactions I have with people where it's a conversation like that and I watch them exhale and their shoulders come down and then they start sitting up straight and then they start growling when they're talking about the shit that they're excited about, and then they're revved up and then they like, oh, I have to go do the do the thing. And then they like scamper away from me, excited to use their energy to do something like that.
Vaness Henry: 55:45
There's. There's a specific depth that I see that's really affected by what you're talking about. And actually you talk, you mentioned politeness. You know like what we will put up with for the sake of like the social you know, and as an appetite person, you transfer to a touch color and touch color People are really sensitive to the atmosphere. You're not, but sometimes you might feel that way. And a huge risk for people who are calm or nervous eaters is that they're consuming things and they don't want to but they're doing it out of politeness, but it like doesn't meet their standard and that's what they're ingesting. And these are the people because touch is like nervous or calm energy, because the atmosphere. They can get really sick because they have all of a sudden realized they have a whole life of constantly learning the grooming of social acceptance on what to take in and whatnot. You see it, with two, with calm eaters, like they are people who would want to eat alone, let's say, or retreat or go away to have their nourishment and more of an environment that they can kind of control. And on the other end of the spectrum, a nervous eater needs that buzzing fun vibe and if it's like no, sit down, we don't eat. We don't do that. Everything they're putting into their system is essentially hurting them.
Vaness Henry: 57:05
I have a I have a touch color child. He's a nervous eater and something. At the old he's always kind of been a decent eater. You know like he would try whatever. He wasn't super picky. As he got older he started to get his preferences, things he liked, and then, you know, sometimes I would make, we'd make the dinners and he didn't. He'd try it, he didn't love something in it.
Vaness Henry: 57:24
I kind of started feeling weird to be like eat it, eat it. I put it on your plate and it was like cause, that's what my parents told me. And I was like you know what, buddy, if that doesn't feel good for your body, don't worry about it. And so then I was like I understand how you know parents. You worked hard, you made your money, you bought the food, you took the energy to make the meal. You put it on the table. You don't, they don't want to eat it. You're pissed, you don't have energy for this.
Vaness Henry: 57:47
And also, nourishing is such an individual thing and how do we support each other, raise our kids, to explore that nourishment within them and what it looks like? I feel like right now we're still very much in a place of like this eating is a social thing and this is what the tribe does to stay alive. And this is the meal that we made. If you don't eat it too bad, you don't get it Leave the table. Like I get that, like the person in me who's that ego, I made it, eat it, that's enough. Like I get that.
Vaness Henry: 58:14
Okay, I hear my mother's voice in my head coming coming out of my throat. You know what I mean, but I don't know, karen, that I agree with that. I like. So that's a conditioning reaction that I'm having, but I don't know that. That's how I want to raise my son, especially knowing he's touched, to bypass that internal alarm that it's, it's doesn't have what you're being polite Like. You don't have to be polite with mom, you don't like it, no worries. And sometimes, like he doesn't. He doesn't like potatoes, it was like corn. I'm like what the fuck? These are basic things like.
Karen Scholle: 58:48
I love.
Vaness Henry: 58:48
But like you used to eat them and I are not, you know, but anyways, it's changed.
Karen Scholle: 59:07
And I you know it's really not the end of the world to not give him potatoes and cut up a side of cucumbers.
Vaness Henry: 59:09
Do you know what I mean? Like the world will not end.
Karen Scholle: 59:10
Yeah, so I was raised in a house by you know someone who was born in a fucking war zone. Yeah so, yeah, yes, like my mom's nervous system rough, rough start. Yeah, and her relationship with food. As someone who was socialized female in Korea, which is a highly patriarchal, highly beauty driven, you know, this is your value in society. Blah, blah blah. There was a lot of food stuff going on in my house and part of that was you finish your plate, because food is precious.
Karen Scholle: 59:32
We don't waste it you know, and part of it was don't overeat because, god forbid, you get too big. So there was this impossible standard that we had where we clean a plate but we're not piggy and we definitely don't get fat, because girls are not allowed to get fat.
Vaness Henry: 59:46
And that was like and you're raising the nineties right. So you're getting that in the nineties like.
Karen Scholle: 59:51
Kate Moss, that whole heroin chic thing Like God it's so cringe to think about those words together, I know, and now my forties, I'm like I'm watching my younger sisters raise their kids. Yeah, and my youngest sister has two, one, three MGs who are both nervous eaters.
Vaness Henry: 1:00:10
Okay.
Karen Scholle: 1:00:10
And these kids Sunday dinner they come over, they enter yelling like they just show up and it's party time and there's food on multiple surfaces and they do drive-bys and they will grab a snack when they need it and they're fine. That's great for them actually, yeah, what a great Like they run around yelling and feeding each other and bumping into shit.
Vaness Henry: 1:00:32
And also that very experience might be destructive for someone else to be around. You know what I mean? Oh, as the consecutive.
Karen Scholle: 1:00:39
It's such an individual thing as a consecutive eater. I get caught up in it and then I'm like burping and uncomfortable and I'm like oh, my God, like yeah, and then I literally will go in like the small dining room and like eat my snack by myself, okay, digest it, and then I can go re-engage. But it's like we're constantly being pulled into these dynamics. I just, I love watching.
Vaness Henry: 1:01:00
Also.
Vaness Henry: 1:01:00
Just let each other do that, you know. Just let each other eat however you want to eat. You know what? Like, growing up, my, for us it was the meat. Like my dad, the meat was expensive. My dad, like finish your meat. Oh yeah, just finish your meat. Then, if you don't need it, finish your meat. And I'm a carnivore. Now is his doing. You know what I mean.
Vaness Henry: 1:01:18
My mom didn't eat meat. She didn't want to eat meat, she barely. She was indirect eater. Every time we'd have a meal.
Vaness Henry: 1:01:23
It was like she was like you know, and after my dad passed away, she had no joy from cooking. Like she goes, she works all day the salon, she comes home, she makes dinner. Me and my sister were like, oh, we don't want that. And she reached a point. She's like fuck it, feed yourselves, feed yourself. Like you know what I mean. She's her dead husband, she's in grief, she's got these two teenage daughters giving her a hard time. Like I get it, like I get why. She was like fuck it, feed yourself.
Vaness Henry: 1:01:48
But the consequence was I never learned how to feed myself. There was no, you know. And when I was young enough and I'm supposed to pass on healthy nourishment to a child. Well, I didn't get the original teaching you know my parent what? My surviving parent was emotionally distraught, in survival mode and some things had to fall by the wayside. Like there's no blame there. It's, if anything, a deep understanding of the suffering she had to go through, and I would have told my kids to feed themselves too. Like every time we sit down it's going to be a fight Cause one of you doesn't like it. Then you better figure out how to cook, like you know what I mean. And also we are individual eaters, like now that I know I had an indirect parent. No, she wasn't eating during the day, right, and so I was like, oh, we don't eat during the day.
Karen Scholle: 1:02:44
I'm 90% sure my mom is an indirect eater. We don't have accurate birth time for her, so it's like you know you got to kind of observe, but um she, what's she, what's her instinct there?
Vaness Henry: 1:02:52
Yeah, I've heard whole design indirect. Yeah.
Karen Scholle: 1:02:55
Yeah, passive brain. When I look at her chart and I think about the stuff that she talks about and particularly her relationship with food, like, oh, I'm hungry, I don't know what I want to eat, I'm so hungry. That's not it. That's not it, she's a 4130. Okay, and so there is like there's kind of an appetite to be full.
Vaness Henry: 1:03:10
What's your?
Karen Scholle: 1:03:11
interpretation yeah, a 4130. Like she recognizes where she's uncomfortable. And then, and then there's this whole ritual of like walking around the house holding her tummy and being like, oh my god, I'm so okay.
Vaness Henry: 1:03:28
That sounds like sound, sound, color. People are very sensitive to the amounts and limits and when we feel full and we, our biggest struggle is we will starve ourselves and undereat, or stuff ourselves and overeat. We don't, we can't figure out the limits.
Vaness Henry: 1:03:43
You know how, like the taste color is sensitive to the ingredient Yep. The sound color is sensitive to the volume of ingredients Yep. So all of a sudden I didn't have one cookie. I had the fucking bag of cookies. Like I see this in my husband like there's a sweet treat. He's low sound, he just like I'm like where did you go that you crushed that whole chocolate milk. Like where are you? He's like, like it's just, and you know so. There's a sensitivity to volume and people often translate volume as like loudness sound but volume is also amount.
Vaness Henry: 1:04:15
Volume, how much is, is until we're full, and if, if she's, if she's ever going to, I'm so full, so full. It's like, oh, that to me is sounding like a sound person who hasn't been respecting their limits, you know, or they haven't figured out their limits, they've engorged. So, for example, what you can see in sound people is they'll start to put on weight because their weight can really kind of fluctuate, or can, they can starve themselves because they're trying to fill something missing, maybe in the life or whether or not getting, and they'll tend to do that in the wrong area, you know. So like we'll do it with food. Instead, maybe we should be creating more or being more physical. And so there's like it's just a little, but like we're, we want to put something in the system. Right, yeah, and it's like she wants.
Karen Scholle: 1:05:03
She wants some kind of experience, like she's looking for something, yeah, and then. And then there's also the uh, been there, done that. Like she'll burn out on some like her favorite snack of the moment. She'll overdo it. Oh yeah, that's sounding.
Vaness Henry: 1:05:18
Yeah, I'm sick of it. Now that's sounding yeah, because then she would transfer to taste where it's like it's about the ingredient she's overdone it perfect?
Vaness Henry: 1:05:26
yeah, I would. I would totally peg her as that. You know, it's fun to like observe people for just a little bit. And you're like I bet you're that I think I'm getting really good at this with environments. Now, like I'll watch people in the human design community. I'm'm like I bet your kitchens, I bet your mountains, and then I'll, and then I'll get a little brave moment. I'm like hi, are you mountains? Like I'll just reach out and they'll be like oh yeah, how'd you know? And they're like okay, bye, Thanks, Just wanted to know and I scurry away all afraid of them, you know.
Vaness Henry: 1:05:57
I'm weird I present.
Karen Scholle: 1:05:58
That's not how I perceive you.
Vaness Henry: 1:06:00
I'm going to receive that. I'm not a very I I I have a brave streak, I can find the courage, I can find the heart, but I'm still a hermit and I'll still be like. Well, you know what? I don't actually get embarrassed or anything very easily, but I get very bad secondhand embarrassment, like if somebody is doing something that's like cringe to me or something it's like I can't even exist in my skin, like I can't even I'm like I can't, I have to like. So it's not. It's never that like I'm embarrassed. I fell, but you fell and I feel like it's happening to me. Oh my God, like it's.
Karen Scholle: 1:06:32
It's a weird undefined G center I have no idea. It's everything Like you identify.
Vaness Henry: 1:06:42
You identify like maybe maybe we identify a little bit karen. There was this woman once she was. We have all these scooters in my town because we're a beach town and so everybody's just kind of like laissez-faire about everything, like they're just like bopping around. It's midnight, woman's on a scooter, I think she's hammered, she's taking the scooter on the road and she's getting too close to the gravel shoulder. Okay, and all of a sudden I'm sitting there, I'm vaping on my deck late at night, I'm looking at the moon, I'm having a moment and I see this chick come in. She's cruising and she hits these rocks and she just goes. Like the sound she makes when she impales the stone, the fucking scooter goes flying.
Vaness Henry: 1:07:18
I'm immediately like I'm never going on a scooter ever in my life and she's right in front of me, Like I'm just one balcony up and she's the woman who lives below me and I just melt into my fucking chair. I'm high, Like I do not want to, and she's like oh, and I'm like fuck, she can fucking see me. Like do I ask if she's okay? Like I'm so embarrassed. I'm so embarrassed and the sounds coming out of these guttural sounds that she's picking herself up. I just I just fucking sat there and hid and hope she didn't see me. I'm pretty sure she saw me, but I was just like, just I was just dying. And I still like I'm telling the story and this was three years ago and it still makes me cringe.
Vaness Henry: 1:07:56
And I still will not go on a scooter because those things are clearly dangerous, anyway. So when people I don't get embarrassed, but when someone does something embarrassing, it may as well be happening to me, like I'm in the I'm sharing that with you. We're going through that. I hate it.
Karen Scholle: 1:08:11
It's awful. That is not how I experienced that at all, but I loved hearing that story. Tell me yours, tell me yours. I mean there's no slinking away like I. I cannot control the obnoxiously loud, explosive laugh that will come out of me when I see what happened, and so I'm just like, I'm just there like loudly.
Vaness Henry: 1:08:30
It was funny and it was funny in hindsight. Yeah, you know, there I was like she's dead. She's dead like I'm. Your soul has left her body Like that sound. Her spirit's somewhere else in the trees, I don't fucking know. But you know what I do think, like had I just been, like if I wasn't having a little vape, if I would know I would, there's no way I would have. I know it was too embarrassing I would have never talked to her and I never talked to her ever again, cause I didn't want her to be like you saw me, I just didn't want. Maybe it's my solar plexus, you know, undefined. I was like no fucking way, I'm out of here. I can't confront this, like I'm so embarrassed.
Karen Scholle: 1:09:06
Just run, run, run, run, just ran for the hills. Yeah, it's like missing things don't make me cringe, but like really heartfelt things make me cringe. Like what, like what, oh God, god, like every time I go to a wedding and and like the couple has written their own vows, I'm like you can't handle that, you don't think it's beautiful. Well, tell me it is, but it bumps into my thing of like this is not for me this is too intimate.
Vaness Henry: 1:09:31
That should be between you.
Karen Scholle: 1:09:32
I feel that where I'm like I don't want to watch you have sex. I don't want to watch you speak your vows Like those. Those things are like sack. I want to watch you have sex.
Vaness Henry: 1:09:40
I'm a voyeur. It might be fun for me, but I will not. I'd like to watch you dance. I know I'm not supposed to but I'm not.
Karen Scholle: 1:09:48
I'm not interested in watching the act Like I like the.
Vaness Henry: 1:09:52
I like the romance part before, but like no no, I'm embarrassed and I have to turn away and let you have your romantic personal time together. That's cute. That's very respectful. Sorry that I'm the creep who's like no, no, no, I'll watch you love each other. That's totally fine with me. Just if you know that I'm here, then I'm mortified and then I must leave. If you see me, the veil is gone and it's not the same, but if you don't see me, it's fair game.
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