No. 22 - Returning to the Mother with Lo

Dec 22

I asked my mom, Lo, to explore the concept of Returning to the Mother with me. After I became a parent, my mom and I could relate on another level. And in an expanded way of understanding myself, she's one of my favourite subjects to study. With her own mother aging and in the later stages of dementia, I wanted to connect to hear what wisdom my mom might have in something I haven't experienced.

I LOVE to find ways to talk to my mom about Design. Human Design, specifically, because to my mom, design means something totally different - even though she's been learning HD indirectly through osmosis for the last 10 years.

Lo is a knitwear designer, retired beauty salon owner, and 1/3 Emo-Generator. Growing up in her world, I was raised in the hair salon, surrounded by all kinds of exchanges as she made her living by leaving people more beautiful and with lighter spirits. She's an Indirect Eater and Markets Person.

I find it so fascinating to learn about the people who raised someone. Who shaped you? Who had a hand in moulding who you became, and what might that reveal about your character?

When I was first studying Human Design, I was most drawn to Colour, Tone and Base because the language was so familiar to me from my upbringing. Pursuing the classic and occult arts felt familiar to me because my mom gave me the framework for building a business using your skills to follow what you love.

Here's my mom's beautiful Colour Palette:

LO SHAPERA
Design Type: 1/3 EMO-GEN
Colour Palette: InDirect / Markets / Possibility / Innocence

Here's a Highlight of her InSights:

The indirect impact of an Entrepreneurial Parent
A look at Parenting Talented Children
How to navigate Career Choices amongst Family Dynamics
Understanding Family History and Cultural Influences
Navigating the Emotions of Aging Parents
A look at Family Dynamics in Grief Processing
Family Members Setting Boundaries as acts of Self-Care
Lo's Life Lessons summarized by Vaness

Find Lo's work at:

lo-rain.com
Pattern Shop
Instagram
Youtube

Vaness Henry: 0:03

It's Vaness Henry, you're listening to insights, my private podcast, exclusively for community members like you. Here's my latest insight. I have a special end of the year episode today. I have invited my mom Lo on to come chat with me because sometimes at the end of a long year, you just need to be held by the mother a little bit sometimes. Hi, mom, welcome to the show.

Lo Shapera: 0:34

Hello, Vanessa, thank you for having me.

Vaness Henry: 0:37

Vanessa, oh my God.

Vaness Henry: 0:38

Don't tell the people that's my real name.

Vaness Henry: 0:40

Oh my God, people really think my name is Vaness. Where'd you get that name? What a curious name. I'm like it's Vanessa, it's just a nickname, like I just picked a nickname because there's a billion people named Vanessa Henry in the world.

Lo Shapera: 0:50

Well, the nickname would be Goosey or Gooser.

Vaness Henry: 0:52

Oh, here we go. Maybe I'm questioning this idea of inviting Lo onto the show. Okay, I'll be good. My mom is a 1-3 investigating martyr emotional generator. My mom is a 1-3 investigating martyr emotional generator. She's also an indirect eater. She's a markets person with a view of possibility and she's innocence motivation.

Vaness Henry: 1:12

So I was raised primarily by somebody who's motivated by innocence and something that I was just saying to my mom the other day while we were talking. I don't even know what we're talking about, mom, but I've noticed that you have this pattern of you will get into things. Let's say you know you're a knitwear designer in your retirement and you used to do a lot of markets and you're a markets person. So that sounds really good in theory. But then you're like this is too much work, Like I'm not enjoying this, and I think that's a beautiful example of innocence motivation, Because one of the things I was saying to you is, mom, if it's not fun, forget it. It's starting to feel like work and you have to get into it and go to the market and make your thing and all the money involved. It just starts to feel like too much for you Do you want to tell me a little bit more about that.

Lo Shapera: 1:58

Yeah, I like getting everything ready for the market, like I can make hundreds of things for the market. It's once you get to the market and people want to barter or do stuff, and it's so much people, energy that it exhausts me. It's like how much for your hat 10 bucks? Oh, I can make it for nine, well then, go ahead and make it for nine.

Vaness Henry: 2:20

Go fucking make it goodbye, yeah, yeah.

Lo Shapera: 2:22

Like it shocks me how you're treated with shit like that, like and and I guess, as I'm older now and I'm like, if you don't like it, shut your pie hole and move on. I had this cute little girl once come up and she's like I had made these ponchos and she wanted the poncho and she was with her grandma and she says grandma, please get you, said I could get something, I want the poncho. She's no, I'll make you the poncho. And she goes but I want it like this year, grandma, you'll never make it. And I just catch it, you know. And then they look at the stitch and try to figure out how to make it and I'm like I'm not telling you how to make it. Like now I've gone to the other side of that and I actually sell my patterns, but while I was in the market I'm not going to give you my pattern.

Vaness Henry: 3:09

Like it wasn't totally so. That's interesting transition that you did. So you used to do a lot of these markets, okay, well, well, if I could just rewind for a minute, you're for most of my life. Your career was as a as a hairstylist. You were an entrepreneur, you owned your own salon, and so I really grew up in a salon environment. My other parent, my dad, was in sales, and so then you guys had two kids and my older biological sister kind of became a hybrid of you. She went to commercial industrial sales, but her items and products were in the beauty supply world. Like you and she, my sister, is also markets, which is interesting. I went and did something else entirely. I wasn't influenced by the parents. We can't really describe what I do, but I'm so influenced by being raised by an entrepreneur. That's all I really know. I'm an entrepreneur as well. I kind of I have been my entire career, and as I became older I realized how steeped I was in entrepreneurship just by watching you run the business. And then you had this evolution as a one three the third line profile can like break their bonds and start, start new relationships, start new careers, do new things, and shortly I don't know if it was before or after I got sick.

Vaness Henry: 4:13

It was around that time you changed careers and you went into finance and I followed you and I went and tiptoed into finance after you and you and I worked together in finance. You were my marketing. What was that? What was your title? Marketing associate, and you would handle all the data entry of the papers and you were really sought after in that environment by everyone I worked with. They wanted you to work with them. But then once I came into the field, you were like, eh, that's my kid, I'm obviously going to help my kid. And you started working with me and we worked. My partner was Tanner and Ralph yeah, Past life things, but we had this time in finance together and that was 2008. That was kind of around the financial crisis. Then we went and got breast reductions together.

Lo Shapera: 4:54

Weird little thing, but the first thing that I went to school for was business accountancy, so I did have an accounting background.

Vaness Henry: 5:02

Excuse me. Thank you for bringing that up. That was your first educational background. Then you were like I don't want to fucking do this, I want to be a hairstylist.

Lo Shapera: 5:08

And then you changed it was hard to get into that as a woman because you know you'll make half the money that the position offers if you were male. And that just pissed me off, of course, of course. So I quit a few jobs, just walked, walked out, said no, done Cool.

Lo Shapera: 5:24

And then finally, I decided to go into hairdressing because I've, like, I wanted to do that as a younger, like coming out of school. But everybody was like, well, why would you waste your time? You, you got grade 12 education and you only need grade 10 to go into hairdressing beauty. It's like your waist You've wasted two years. And it's like your waist you've wasted two years. And it's like the knowledge is never wasted, like. But it was kind of like. So then I thought, oh, I'll go into the medical field. Like. I went through all the testing. I was going to be an operating room technician. I got there was only accepting three people in in the province. I was the top choice and I turned it down because they told me I couldn't wear nail polish or makeup.

Vaness Henry: 6:05

And I'm just.

Lo Shapera: 6:06

I love the beauty industry. You know, I just I like the. I like cause it lets you be creative. And it was just so. Then I went into accounting, because it's sort of like if I'm not in the medical field, I go in the accounting field. And then it wasn't the accounting field. So then I thought you know what? I'm going back to what I wanted to do in the first place. Well, now I've wasted four years, but you know what? It wasn't a waste because I was able to do my own books.

Vaness Henry: 6:34

It was like you know, mom, I feel like my five years in finance were also a waste. Like I'm like why the fuck did I do that? But? But but what you learned everything, like you know, and and I specialize in critical illness and I now see how that has just evolved into my work I do now in shamanism but it helped me figure out just how the how the financial system works and how flawed it is and what little tips and tricks to do.

Vaness Henry: 6:57

Like it was still very valuable, but I knew the whole time I was there that I didn't want to be there. I was just fucking stubborn and I left. I was in magazine and I might. I couldn't make ends meet with some of my medical bills and I was pissed that nobody had informed me about that. So I was like I'm going to go into the industry so I can learn all about that and educate all the people my age who need to know about this. But I didn't. I didn't.

Vaness Henry: 7:21

I got into it out of spite, you know, like I got into it cause I was pissed off and I hated doing the training, mom, like I didn't enjoy any of the fucking process, and then five years went by like how the hell it goes. And so, anyway, I came to you one day, we went for, we went for dinner and I was like mom, I don't know that I'm liking this. And you were like I can't even if I could have a moment with you. You were so loving and encouraging, like you were like you can do anything you want. If I was going to put my money on anyone, on anything, it would be you just follow your heart. And I see now that you didn't in your youth and that's probably why you were giving me that encouragement.

Lo Shapera: 8:00

And you also have an undefined heart and your design, I think like, I sort of get that probably from my mother, because she could do anything like whatever she sets her mind to do, she's going to do it, she's going to fix it, she's going to make it, she's going to do it, but you're a woman, so you don't, you're sort of behind the scenes. So I sort of always felt like that and it was like, well, you don't need to go to school and you don't need to have a job, you'll just stay at home and be a wife. And I'm like, uh no.

Lo Shapera: 8:31

So yeah you're, you've always been very feminist team Um you kind of, but before I was fully aware of what that was but see, my dad would say she's, she's, she's too smart for her own good, she, it's going to get her into trouble. It's like, well, guess what? I lost my husband and it's a good chance that I had something to fall back on. Yeah, cause what happens if you just be a stay at home mom that didn't even ever have a job.

Vaness Henry: 8:55

And you had financial trouble when he died because you were, the bank was suing you for the mortgage because they thought he took out insurance, because when he died it was a little, they were suspicious of his death. Yeah, they called it misrepresentation and they thought he took out insurance while knowing he had cancer, which was not true. So you had to testify in court with doctors. You ended up winning that battle, yeah, but let's pretend you had nothing to fall back on. What would you have done in that time? Yeah, thank God, you knew how to take care of yourself and you see these people living off the street, or that's what happens.

Lo Shapera: 9:30

They've got no family to support them or no backup, or you know, I mean I had two brothers that would have probably helped me, but you don't like to put yourself in that position. Yeah, but even that.

Vaness Henry: 9:40

I remember. I remember dad dying and saying to you don't worry, my dad will help you, and that sure as hell did not happen. We were basically ostracized from his side of the family. Yeah, and you know in more ways than one. So we, you never know what's going to happen. Your only responsibility is really yourself and, in your case, if you also have children. But I wonder. I'm glad you brought up your mom, because this is a mothery episode. I've invited my mom on and I want to talk about Jima because I have been watching your relationship with her and watching how your wounds have been triggered with this phase in her life and I want to talk with you about it.

Vaness Henry: 10:15

She is in her 80s, 87. And during the pandemic she had a really bad fall and was pinned for 24 hours. She had a stroke. She had a stroke and and was pinned for 24 hours. She had a stroke. She had a stroke and we nobody was able to get to her and she's never really fully recovered and since that she has gone into assisted living, correct Personal care Like she's Personal care now, Okay, Full time. So she has dementia. She has dementia.

Lo Shapera: 10:42

She can't walk.

Vaness Henry: 10:43

She's been eroding. Yeah, she's in final stages right now, and so how she has four kids. How did you become the primary kid responsible for her care?

Lo Shapera: 10:56

Well, I think she probably. I think a mother must sense that this would be the child that can do it. That can because I was always sort of around my mom, whereas my sister wasn't so and my sister had a lot of other problems.

Vaness Henry: 11:12

So you have one projector sister and you're an emotional generator and that sister has also had a very challenging. Let's just. Can we just fucking say you and your siblings had hard lives, okay, oh no, mom, I know, I know you think it's normal, but you had hard lives, I know, but people have had worse so I don't want to complain god, lorraine, you can have.

Vaness Henry: 11:40

Yes, someone is always going to have it worse than you, but that shouldn't make you bypass some of the hard things you've had to injure in your family well it could look it.

Lo Shapera: 11:49

It hasn't been good, but I try to like think positive.

Vaness Henry: 11:54

So I don't. I don't know how you're going to feel about this, but I want to show you this. I've got um grandpa's cd here. Oh yeah, Octave Leclaire. I'm very inspired by him right now.

Lo Shapera: 12:06

I think I have that.

Vaness Henry: 12:06

CD too. He's a little bit of a muse of mine because I find his name very interesting Octave lightning that's cool, the octaves in the lightning, what is that. But he was a very troubled person and I have found that I have somewhat villainized my grandfather's a little bit. You know, I've kind of forgiven. You know, sometimes you can resent your parent, like why are you like this? Or why didn't you give me that? Or I don't really feel that toward my parents. I feel a lot of understanding and protection toward my parents, but what I've realized is I maybe sometimes blame their parents, my grandparents, how they treated my parents. I was just passing the buck, you know, and I know he was an alcoholic and had been abusive and so there's kind of this point of contention with him in the family. But what happened to him to make?

Lo Shapera: 12:53

to get him. Okay, I was just going to say that. So I've been as a as an older woman now I've been thinking about that because we didn't talk about that back then. Exactly Everything was kept a secret and I know he went to Catholic school like by the priests and he hated the church like hated. It Didn't force us to go, which I thought was great, because we didn't feel like going anyhow, and you know, you went to church mom, because you know when all your friends are doing it.

Lo Shapera: 13:21

My grandma would take me because you needed to wear a little hat. I really wanted a hat and I got to wear a dress. I never had a dress. I wanted a dress like just, you know, yeah, things like that. And then I wondered did? Something happened at the church which troubled him, which caused him to drink. You know, who knows? We'll never know. We'll never know. But if, if I could go, back.

Vaness Henry: 13:44

I think it's safe to say he experienced something based on the way he had such intense values against that, how he was not supported in dealing with his emotions and his experiences of a man as a man of his time and he poured himself into his music and drinking. The reason I brought him up was because CDs have kind of fallen out of tech. Yeah, so I've been remastering his music because I thought I'm probably one of the best people in the family to do that, and so I've been figuring out how to get these his CD and his music onto our computer, and Derek and I have been remastering it and I thought that'd be a cool thing to give to my family, if I can get it done, you know, around the holiday time or the new year or you know, and so it's something I've been working on. It was really emotional to hear all these spirits and voices of people who've passed in our family.

Lo Shapera: 14:36

Yeah, Because there's my dad.

Vaness Henry: 14:38

There's my dad playing the drums, there's my grandpa playing the fiddle, there's auntie on the banjo and the guitar and there's someone doing the spoons.

Lo Shapera: 14:46

There's uncle playing guitar, yeah.

Vaness Henry: 14:48

And so suddenly I was listening to the music of my ancestors and many of them who are not here anymore, and I just thought you know what I really want to give this to my family? Like modernize the tech so that we could have it. Like, like digitize so you could play it on iTunes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, so I've been in the process, that's a great idea.

Vaness Henry: 15:05

Mom, it's hard Like I bought this thing Look at, this is like my little CD thing to try and get it on the computer but not everything uploads, you know what was hard Is living in a 600 square foot house, having to listen to the record player on 16.

Lo Shapera: 15:26

You guys probably don't know what that means, but it is slow, freaking motion while he learns the song.

Vaness Henry: 15:42

And you can't escape it.

Lo Shapera: 15:43

You're trying to sleep and it was like he.

Vaness Henry: 15:44

when I listen back you know I have memories of my experience of childhood was filled with that sort of fiddle music which, I have to tell you, sounds very Métis Like.

Lo Shapera: 15:48

it sounds like Festival de Voyager, and he's wearing a high vest here with beadwork, like I don't.

Vaness Henry: 15:50

Yes, but you guys are practicing so many indigenous things and yet you were not indigenous and so? But I know we have cousins and relatives who were, but our core family was not, and yet we're part of the other side of the Métis culture that fell in love with, like the indigenous people and the French people.

Lo Shapera: 16:10

My dad had a lot of friends who were Métis.

Vaness Henry: 16:13

You can see that influenced on him and I didn't realize that as a child Like George, one of his really close friends is.

Lo Shapera: 16:20

Métis, so you know, he played music with him. He was a wonderful guitar player.

Vaness Henry: 16:25

Well, so the sounds of my childhood. I didn't realize how indigenized they were until I became an adult and learned more about it, and I did not realize how incredibly talented he was. He's brilliant Like holy cow, like he can. Anyways, how he played the fiddle was absolutely astounding, and it reminds me of you and how you absolutely perfect your crafts and the things that you make. So it was interesting to me that you went and pulled that from your mother.

Lo Shapera: 16:54

I could. I can see it from both sides. That's why I feel like I'm I've got a double whammy, like you know like so wait, let's, let's talk about her.

Vaness Henry: 17:02

okay, let's talk about her because you have shared with me when you were a kid. Sometimes the home was not always safe and he would have his episodes and perhaps take it out on her and you felt like she was one of the kids. Yes, can you tell me a little?

Lo Shapera: 17:20

bit more about that. Well, if he was upset about whatever would have happened, let's say at work or whatever you would kind of stay out of his way, but sometimes it was impossible to do that in a square, 600 square foot home, right. And so you didn't make eye contact and, of course, being the mom, she would try to protect us, or you know whatever. And so whoever the first one to look at him was the one that he was going to rant.

Vaness Henry: 17:44

Take it out on.

Lo Shapera: 17:46

And it's not like like he wouldn't hit us or anything, it was just like don't be stupid like that.

Vaness Henry: 17:51

He's a mom. He was very emotionally abusive.

Lo Shapera: 17:53

And it's like OK, but I'm not doing that.

Vaness Henry: 18:10

So why are you telling me what you better believe, that I'm never going to do it, because you know. And then he, my mom, would go to say something and he'd say, okay, you guys all go to bed.

Lo Shapera: 18:11

And he made my mom go to her room too. And I was like, oh my God, mom, if that were me I would have delivered. Yeah, and I, as a little person, I would say to myself, if I ever get married, my husband does that, well, no, he'll never do that, because I will not stay there, I will not like. So that puts some feelings in me. I guess that would be like that's not something that I is acceptable to me. But as a little kid there's no way to get out of it, right? So it's just kind of wait, right, yeah, don't make eye contact, don't be the first one to make eye contact. But then when you have two younger siblings, you need to protect them. And I'm not the oldest sibling, but I was the biggest sibling because my older brother was much smaller than me. So it was like yikes.

Lo Shapera: 18:52

You felt responsible for your mom and your siblings was more afraid for my siblings because it would be just like, okay, he's in a mood, go like, but somebody had to stay there because he had to, he had to talk to someone. So it would be one of the older ones that would have to listen, have to listen. But see, I'm really good at disassociating. You can say all you want, and it's not, it's not sinking in anymore.

Vaness Henry: 19:27

Well, I wait. I wanted to stop you right there because I would offer that that's probably a trauma response in a way that you're in survival mode to deal with him. It's not particularly healthy. It may be points to you've been in a state of an unsafe place for too long and that's just. You know, we can fight flight fun.

Lo Shapera: 19:44

That's your, that's, that was my, my coping mechanism, or whatever, and so I became really good at ignoring or just shutting it out. Just let him go, because eventually he'll fall asleep and, you know, or drink himself to sleep whatever.

Vaness Henry: 20:02

Yeah, he used to have Kool-Aid around all the time and I sipped it once and it was a mistake. I was like, ooh, orange Kool-Aid, I'm gonna steal this before he sees.

Lo Shapera: 20:10

And it was like literally yeah, I remember that.

Vaness Henry: 20:12

It was like no, I just spit it right back in his drink and I left all my little back washes in there. But yeah, it was awful so that you're steeped in when your life is just beginning and you're getting a lay of the land. So your relationship with your mom is very interesting to me, that you felt sorry for her and now we go and we're at the end chapters of her life and you're still feeling sorry for her and you're still the one trying to take care of her.

Lo Shapera: 20:37

Well, and it's, it's not, I don't know that. I describe it as feeling sorry. Okay, I feel that, feel that what's the word I don't know the word, I'm not good with words, like you are but it's just like the end of life is not pleasant and it's like just end already. And a lot of people say, well, why wouldn't you just want to keep your parent around? Well, because it's like, do you think?

Vaness Henry: 21:03

she's suffering.

Lo Shapera: 21:05

Well, I don't think she's in pain, but like we have a photo of my dad on her wall and we'll try to get her to look at things and you know, we just make, oh, there's a picture of dad, and she'll go, oh him. It's like do you want me to take the picture down? And she doesn't answer.

Vaness Henry: 21:29

So it's kind of like have you ever tried taking it down and see how that makes her feel?

Lo Shapera: 21:34

I asked my brother should we take it down? And he says, well, she's never said that to me and I'm like and now her bed doesn't face that side so she won't see it anyhow. So it's kind of like. But I'm thinking I know how I would feel if I was laying in my bed and the picture of my late husband is looking down on me. I'd be losing my shit. Why I don't want them. It's creepy. You shouldn't have a picture of anybody looking down on you.

Vaness Henry: 22:00

But it's bad, juju. You've had a couple of husbands at this point, so which one's looking at you? You're throwing men on there. No, I don't have a picture of him looking over my bed.

Lo Shapera: 22:09

Yeah, yeah, how do you like this honey? Like, no, no.

Vaness Henry: 22:14

You have something in your astrology where you are a Libra North node and the Libra North node, as they are kind of continuing on their life Well, it also means you have an Aries South nodes. Let me explain that. Beginning of life is very much about you, what I want to do and how does this work for me. And as you continue growing and evolving, it becomes a little bit more about the other. And what do I need to understand about the other? My son is also the same axis as you. He's a Libra North node and you guys had an immediate bond right away. And I want to.

Vaness Henry: 22:48

I want to confess something to you. I have found your story of some of the things that have happened in your life very hard to witness and it's made me worried that, oh, is my son going to be on a path like that? Does that mean he's doomed to be surrounded by people who are unwell that he has to take care of? Because that's how I've perceived a lot of my mom's life. I know that might kind of sound some way when I say it, but when I think about some of your experiences, you lose the love of your life at 40. This is a very important milestone in the life. This is called the Uranus opposition, where you know, there there's some shakeup. You hear about people feeling away at 40, you know oh.

Vaness Henry: 23:27

God 40. And then, a couple of years later, your child is sick and dying. Right after you got married. You get married, you're starting this new chapter of your life. Boom, kid gets cancer, husband has cancer, dies, kid gets cancer. Oh my God, is she going to die? I make it through that. Your husband now you remarried he's currently as we're talking this is coming out at the end of December going through radiation for prostate cancer.

Lo Shapera: 23:52

Yeah, at the end of December going through radiation for prostate cancer. Yeah, he's already had the surgery.

Vaness Henry: 23:55

He's already had the surgery. He's this is something that he's been going through over the past couple of years. He came off the roof. He's a six two and was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and I did go through these treatment. What does this feel like for you? Cause it seems like there's this, this chasing of people around you who've been ill in this very specific way.

Lo Shapera: 24:14

I think I must be entering a different phase. I would like to hear it. I'm not as worried because I know that I survived the first one. I survived you and whatever is meant to happen, you survived me an accomplishment. No, what an achievement to happen. You survived me an accomplishment.

Vaness Henry: 24:34

No, what an achievement.

Lo Shapera: 24:34

I gave birth I survived, but like I feel that no matter what happens, I'll be okay, and that's how I'm looking at my mom right now. Nobody ever wants to see their mother go, but everybody has to go, so I pray that she goes peacefully. Like I don't want to fall on the floor Well, they'd have to drop her because she doesn't walk but I don't want her to break her, like you know, be in pain.

Vaness Henry: 25:00

So how has this influenced you? Now, as a 65 year old woman and you're looking you've been intimate with the end of life. For most of your life you have been brushed with death. I'd imagine this has an influence on you, and what when you're thinking about your end of life care? I don't think I'm scared of dying now. Like.

Lo Shapera: 25:20

I don't.

Vaness Henry: 25:20

I hope I got another 20 years, but if I have you, tell me, yeah, you tell me, the goal is to live healthy into your eighties.

Lo Shapera: 25:26

But if I have a choice of, of I think we've discussed this before of living till 80 and being of sound mind and still being able to walk.

Vaness Henry: 25:39

Well, even if you can't walk, as long as you can talk, and and you know you want, you want to be cognizant, you want to be able to engage with the other.

Lo Shapera: 25:47

But if I, if they say, well, why wouldn't you want to live, to be 90, but you can't feed yourself, you can't talk, you can't change yourself. It's not really living to you. What, what is that like? That wouldn't be my choice. What would your choice be to be? Make it my choice, and we've talked about that. But yeah, you're you what is it called?

Vaness Henry: 26:06

made made, which is cute. What's the abbreviation?

Lo Shapera: 26:08

Medical assisted in dying.

Vaness Henry: 26:11

You have been yeah, you have been so about this in your life. I know, yeah, I know I respect it. I respect it Like I have a different philosophy and as someone who's been unwell and has grown up in hospitals and witnessed children dying, witnessed adults dying, someone who works with sick people, I could see my work as I get older, going into hospice or end of life care. I'm very comfortable in that world and providing comfort and affirmation to someone who is in the final stages of life. I recognize that that can be disturbing for people. For me, it's a familiar place and it's an honor and a privilege to be with someone as they cross over into those next stages that we don't really understand and also that is still very challenging. So you've always been someone who's like I want to have the choice of when I've had enough, I'm ready to go, I feel like I'm losing my mind or whatever that, whatever the reason is. And you bring up something really interesting, because some of us don't know when we're going to go. And well, none of I should say, excuse me, none of us know when we're going to go, but if we would have that opportunity, there are probably tons of people who would take it, particularly people who are sick.

Vaness Henry: 27:27

Yeah, and, and how the end of life, like you said, is not pretty. And yeah, and, and and how the end of life, like you said, is not pretty. And we know you like pretty things, you like the beauty industry, you like to be surround, you like to be able to make your environment as beautiful as you want it, just simply for the joy of life is too short not to be surrounded by beautiful things. I definitely feel your teaching has affected me in that. Okay, but I don't know that I would be able to end it personally myself, like I don't think that I could, but I can see. No, because you're still young, I get it, but once you're but, but I've also been closer to death than you have. Yes, probably yes.

Vaness Henry: 28:04

You know, so we have different experiences of it. But I'm not saying I don't think there's a right or wrong here. I deeply respect that, that and I, and that that is your wish and I'm your child who must respect what your wishes, you know, as we're getting older.

Lo Shapera: 28:17

That's like when you asked me, you know you've.

Vaness Henry: 28:26

You've had a hard life and I say no, like I've had a good, exactly. I love that you reframe, that You're like well, this one, the one I'm in, is always the best one, and I thought that was so beautiful and inspiring because people can look back at the glory days. You know, and you're like not me, this is the glory day Like teens, nah no way 20s hard, like too many change.

Lo Shapera: 28:47

Yeah, 30s. Okay, the kids are there and it's stressful and you know, yeah, the kids are still there, yeah, and then 50 was like OK, my kids are all doing well, I'm good, Right, 50, 50 from now, like 55 when I retired. It's like OK, this is about me now.

Vaness Henry: 29:09

Yes, I don't feel like a lot of your life wasn't about you about me now?

Lo Shapera: 29:14

Yes, I don't. Do you feel like a lot of your life wasn't about you? It was always making sure that you guys had a roof over your head, and I'm like I feel for those single moms that don't have. You were a single mom, I know, but I had a job.

Vaness Henry: 29:25

I had a business Mom you always do this, like you, you, you, you were the single mom. They were trying to take your house. Your kid was dying right after your husband was dying. You think someone would choose that? You're the one that people were looking at. We're going, oh my God, and you're still of the mind. We're like I didn't have it as bad as some, and that's true. There are other factors that, of course, could make it worse, and also it's pretty fucking hard, but I felt that at least I was healthy so I could deal with it.

Vaness Henry: 29:56

Is that absolutely true? Because after my dad died, I remember you having a huge rheumatoid arthritis episode and you were absolutely crippled and couldn't move because of the stress of losing your husband, that we also had to take care of you because you couldn't handle it. You weren't always healthy. I hear that you didn't have cancer, but you also had your own physical ailments.

Lo Shapera: 30:15

Yeah.

Vaness Henry: 30:15

Yeah, but auto you were always sore mom.

Lo Shapera: 30:18

You were always sore. And that's that's an autoimmune, that's something that's and I mean, you're the one who knows this better than me that's something that I needed to release Absolutely Once that all passed. I haven't had arthritis flare up since I know.

Vaness Henry: 30:38

I know that's wild to me, yeah, cause, cause even when, like before, dad was sick, you would, I remember the it would rain and you'd be sore. I still get that feeling sometimes, but it never that that crippling Cause you were really contorted, like your hands.

Lo Shapera: 30:52

You were really I've never seen you like that after I do injections in my joints to you know, whatever, and so let's let's pivot into my work for a second, because I find that very interesting.

Vaness Henry: 31:03

You're somebody who's touch cognition and touch cognition is based on things that I've tracked. These are people who can sometimes have issues with their skin or their joints or their muscles, like that. This is very evolved and for you, you have it in your cognition. We can have it in this, in the external variable. I know that might not mean anything to you, mom, but what you really need to know about that is you carry this really powerful super sense deep in you, where you just have a special touch. Sometimes I see it come through.

Vaness Henry: 31:30

And how you did hair, I see it definitely come through in your knitwear designing. That you do now in your at the retirement phase of your life. I see it in how you communicate and talk to people. You just have this ability to leave them with something, something special. You also have this mastery of working with your hands, like sometimes I'd come home and you'd have built a whole fucking closet in the basement and I'm like I don't even know how she knows how to do this. You know what I mean and you are absolutely brilliant with your creativity and I see that both your parents were incredibly creative as well. Jima was an incredible seamstress. She was a knitter. I see how that has influenced you.

Vaness Henry: 32:08

I would say both of my parents were perfectionists when they did Absolutely, and so are you, you are, you are the biggest, biggest perfectionist I know, and sometimes I think well, just let it go.

Lo Shapera: 32:19

Why can't you? I try really, really hard and sometimes I'll say, okay, you know what, it's good enough, I'll just leave it. And then now you do not, I'll end up getting up in the middle of the night and going to finish it, it was like no going to finish it.

Vaness Henry: 32:33

It was like no, just do it, just do it. It's like I always get teased like and this is who raised me. Okay, this is who raised me.

Lo Shapera: 32:36

Just get up in the middle of the night and finish it, make it perfect when, when I owned a home that had a yard that you had to cut the grass, etc. You know, I said let's get all the chores done and then we can relax. And both of my husbands would be like no, let's go golf first. When we we come home we'll do it. It'll still be here. And I'm like no, I'll be tired then and I won't relax on the golf course. So I'm different. If I don't have it done, when I'm on the course I'm still going to be thinking about cutting the grass and guess what, when I get home I'm going to be tired.

Vaness Henry: 33:12

This is a perfect example of somebody like you with an undefined root center. So the root center is this pressure center where we feel like we can't relax until we get it off our plate. I just got to finish the dishes and then I can relax and watch my show. I just got to go finish this and then I can. So just last night, mom, I had this dream that I was rushing I had to get to a funeral because I was speaking at the funeral. I was like the one speaking at the funeral, I don't fucking know why, and I couldn't get my makeup on fast enough. And I was rushing in my dream and I was like this is happening in my subconscious Like I also have an undefined route.

Vaness Henry: 33:42

Like you, I don't even know how to relax. When I think I'm relaxing, I'm still doing something, and so I've really had to go into a experiment of learning what does relaxing look like, and I think, because I have a relaxing lifestyle, there's been an oversight that I have forgotten. I still need to intentionally relax, like I used to go have a bath, but I'm reading a self-help book. You know what I mean. Like I'm still like, or I'm still studying, and some of my best relaxation is when I unplug and like play the Sims or watch X-Files or like I'm still focused on another world but I'm not doing anything in my own life, kind of thing.

Lo Shapera: 34:20

So we share that. I don't know if you remember how much I used to love going to bingo.

Vaness Henry: 34:24

Yes, I remember how much you loved you had a fetish for gambling.

Lo Shapera: 34:28

Because I could just totally unplug when I go there and I just have to get the fricking button and don't anybody talk to me. I'm in my zone and if I win money it's a bonus.

Vaness Henry: 34:39

You have I don't know, I do not understand this Like every time I used to go to the casino it'd be like Monday night, mom's going to the casino, I would give you a good luck charm. So you'd come home and you, you a little crystal or a little, or a little creature. I'd give you this little like gecko or some shit, I know so funny I'm basically still doing that.

Vaness Henry: 34:59

Now, here's your little crystal, here's your little omen, like I have not fucking changed. Okay, and you would always come home and you would win. You always won. I did not understand. And then you went to Vegas and you would always win there. They would invite you back and stand. And then you went to Vegas and you would always win there, they would invite you back. And so I was like that's fucking cool, I'm going to gamble. I did not have the same experience, but when I got into the casinos oh, the sound as a high sound person, the environment I love, and it's like games and I could win money. Oh, do I love it?

Lo Shapera: 35:29

I love it. I usually go to the quietest section, not me. What's the funnest game? Pain is sitting in the back where nobody can see me. Maybe that's the. I don't want to give out my tips, but you know, maybe that's where the paying machines are you are.

Vaness Henry: 35:45

So you gave me all the tips because you would teach me like split with someone you have better odds of like the two of you doing well you show me which machines how to gamble on. It was so fucking fun. But, like looking back, I used to lay in your bed at night and you had those little like yeah, yeah, poker, their little digital poker game, and I would fucking play it like, but you know, what my mom took me to.

Lo Shapera: 36:07

My mom took me to bingo as a kid I went to bingo with you.

Vaness Henry: 36:10

I-22 is when I when I fucking my first bingo I ever won on. And then I gave birth to Hawksley on May 22nd and I was like there it is showing up again, my magic little number. I loved going to bingo. I loved going to bingo. I loved going with Jima and her teaching me the dabbers.

Lo Shapera: 36:27

I loved that I was thinking about Jima, about this the other night, because I've been thinking about her a lot and how much she loved bingo. And you know, jima, she was so quiet, she never talked. She barely says anything, she's quiet. But give that woman a bingo dabber and she gets bingo. She, freaking, yells bingo so loud, she blows the roof off the house and everybody would look at her and go who was that? Where the hell did that come from? She's just well, it's not, they're not going to hear me, I want the money. And it was just like she became someone else and it was so funny. And just the other day we were sort of talking to her about it and I said to mom do you remember yelling bingo so loud? She goes yep, it was just like yep.

Lo Shapera: 37:08

It's like she can't yell loud now, but it would be like she can now yeah.

Vaness Henry: 37:13

So you and I have both lost our fathers and so we can relate there. However, I have always had a very healthy mother and my mother has actually never had. I shared you at that episode, kind of with the arthritis and everything, but for the most part your health has been really fantastic and you've always really prioritized your health and your nutrients and being physical and taking care of yourself. I recognize now as an adult you were definitely bullied a lot when I was growing up because people felt you were underweight. I see that they were just very jealous of you and mistreated you and I don't think you were treated fairly, mom, and I think you were forced to endure some things that you didn't deserve and as somebody who was witnessing your life, I found that very hard and I can see how that gave me a distorted perception on body image because of how mistreated you were and what they wanted you to wear or dress. Like it was.

Vaness Henry: 38:03

You were not treated appropriately, in my opinion, and I can see how that affected me for sure, but you are always healthy. So what can you tell me? As you're witnessing your mother and she is now not her healthiest she's not always fully aware and cognizant and you're there witnessing that and I've witnessed the sick dying parent and I know how brutal that can be. So what can you impart with me on that Cause? The mother bond is a different bond. Like you know, that's the person who carried you.

Lo Shapera: 38:33

I think my mom was always healthy to this point.

Vaness Henry: 38:38

Yes, exactly I agree, it's a similar story.

Lo Shapera: 38:41

So if I, if I put myself in her shoes, and I know that this well, wait, wait, let's be in your shoes.

Vaness Henry: 38:48

Let's be in your shoes as the kid. And it's your mom, okay, and your mom is now at the final stages of her life, in her crone era, and she is slowly slipping away and you're the child they're witnessing that, okay, and that's a challenging place to be. So what's going on for you as the witness?

Lo Shapera: 39:05

Well, I'm sort of more at peace with it lately because of of how slowly it's. It's kind of kind of like, you know, if somebody dies of a heart attack, it's boom shock, yeah yeah, you know, and now it's being young and it's like, oh, they're too young or even if you have an 80 year old parent and you know, yeah, just was.

Vaness Henry: 39:24

The death of a parent is never easy, yeah, died in his chair or her chair.

Lo Shapera: 39:29

That's probably the best way to go, to be honest. But with dementia or any of those types of alzheimer's or whatever it's, it's a day by day by day by day it's slowly a little bit losing, losing, losing until it's just like it's them, but it's not them.

Vaness Henry: 39:46

Mom, I have some, some theories on this I want to share with you.

Lo Shapera: 39:49

And like nothing can be be proved, I mean, it's, it's it's always them, and you know, I believe, that they can still hear you and they can still um.

Vaness Henry: 39:59

They just can't communicate if we entertain the idea that they're really. You're so evolved. There are these two parts of you. You know, you have this form, this body, this creature, and you have this spirit part of you, your consciousness, awareness, when you awake, that person who's actually engaging, you know, and these are like two kind of separate things. And when it comes to these diseases of the mind or dementia, it makes me feel like could the spirit possibly be detaching from the body? But the body is not. The body is still there, right, but the spirit itself is checked out and has had enough or has endured too many things and is ready to go into the beyond, but the form is still alive. Yeah, and it just seems like there's a separation happening between body and spirit.

Lo Shapera: 40:44

I think that that's a good way to describe it. That's sort of like that's a good way to.

Vaness Henry: 40:48

The spirit is dying.

Lo Shapera: 40:50

Yeah.

Vaness Henry: 40:51

Which sounds devastating. You can see it in their eyes. It's like exactly, you know, it's like there's, there's. Does she recognize you all the time? No, no, now you're your husband right now. He lost his mom to dementia. Yes, when I was going shortly after I finished treatment, actually, because he was in our life then and so you had this precursor, his. You witnessed someone's mother slow the spirit slowly slipping away like that, and so, in a way, you were groomed a little bit. Yes, how much does he help you through this with his experiences.

Lo Shapera: 41:27

Sometimes I'll say, oh, you know, whatever this he says, do you remember? My mom did that? And I'm like, yeah, you're right, you know. And and they have little spurts where, oh, are they messing with us? Like are they really? Do they really have that?

Lo Shapera: 41:40

How come they're remembering today and then the next day it's like nobody's home and it is sort of the sickness intrigues me. It's like you know, you've said this to me what is going on in the brain and why can they not fix? What is causing that? Like they say it's like a form of, like another form of diabetes or something. It's funny because my mom has been diagnosed with diabetes. She has. I didn't know that. We didn't know either. They just told us and then her mom had diabetes. We knew that, didn't know either. They just told us and then her mom had diabetes. We knew that.

Lo Shapera: 42:14

And it's like ted's mom and it's like, oh, okay, like is there something that we're doing? You're seeing what's the connection? Yeah, and then, like just a couple weeks ago, mom had um was unresponsive, so they had to give her a sternum rub, which is unpleasant, supposedly because it's like they're such in a deep state of sleep that they cannot arouse them, so they rub the sternum really hard and they still sent her to the hospital. Couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. My brother went with her, was there for 24 hours and she did not sleep a wink In 24 hours, normally sleeps. Sleeps 20 hours a day, like every time you go there she's sleeping Okay, so you hear this going on with your mom.

Vaness Henry: 42:57

What's going on in you as that news comes in?

Lo Shapera: 43:00

Well, cause, I'm talking to my brother and I'm like tell her to have some rest, like she needs some rest, and it's like no, so then they discharge her, cause there's nothing wrong. They send her back to the personal care home. I go see her and she's like a new person and I'm like what do you mean? She's talking number one, okay. And she's like who, lucky I didn't die making jokes, holy yeah, yeah, and I'm making Canadian jokes.

Lo Shapera: 43:26

Put an a on the end there, even holy and then she says I need to see all my friends. Whoa, I, I'm like, okay, what friends would you like to see? And that kind of stumped her a little bit, cause, like, but so I just let her talk and just saying things. And then she tells me about one of my aunts that was visiting her in the hospital and she said, you know, once they took my IV out, they put it on auntie, and I thought, oh, she's mistaken, like she, she, you know, she made that up or or whatever you know. Okay, what's going on in you when you realize that? So I'm thinking, did something heal in her brain? Or is this her last attempt to tell us something you know?

Vaness Henry: 44:01

But it's still coming out a little bit confused and distorted by the sounds of it.

Lo Shapera: 44:05

But she can talk, she can talk, so it was good. But then I see her the next day and she's you know.

Vaness Henry: 44:11

I was, I think, 10 when my dad phoned me from the hospital and he was very confused and he was asking me do you know where mom parked the car? Do you know where mom parked the car? And it was very upsetting when he was confused and I was like no, why would I know that, dad? Well, you can't just figure it out. So, as the kid, I don't know, you're an adult, but as the kid, when the parent is confused like that, it can create a little bit of fear inside.

Lo Shapera: 44:36

Yeah, I've been listening to a lot of like podcasts and follow people who are caring for a person like their loved one in their home and it's like they give you a lot of good tips what not to say, what to say, what not to ask. They give you a lot of good tips, what not to say, what to say, what not to ask, and just can you share some of that with me? Well, like if they say you know where's auntie and she's passed away, say well, she's not here right now, okay.

Vaness Henry: 45:03

And sometimes they say she's passed away, cause that might be upsetting, because that just cause.

Lo Shapera: 45:07

They relive it because they don't remember.

Vaness Henry: 45:09

Of of course, okay, right.

Lo Shapera: 45:11

So the most compassionate thing is to just I see, okay yeah, and like a couple times like I haven't been able to go see mom because they were either in lockdown or something. So then when I go she'll say, was jeff sick too? I'll say no, he wasn't. And then she's kind of looking at ted like my other husband because, so jeff is your first husband.

Vaness Henry: 45:31

my dad, ted is your first husband. My dad, ted is your second husband, so she's a little bit confused.

Lo Shapera: 45:35

So she'll say did Jeff get sick too? And I'll say no, he's not sick. And she'll go, oh okay, and I'll say but Ted also got sick. And then she'll go oh right, like so it takes her a long time to process, and then it's like she's got, she's lost in that, so she doesn't know that.

Vaness Henry: 45:57

So the spirit is detached, like she can't process, she can't understand or comprehend, because it's half, it's already disembodied, it's already detached and it's funny that you say that the spirit is disattached.

Lo Shapera: 46:08

Because, getting back to the story about when she was in the hospital and said that auntie, her sister, had IV, when her sister was there she wasn't feeling well, so they discharged mom. They were waiting for a stretch of service to come and pick her up to take her back to the personal care home and auntie was there with her husband and she said I think I better get checked out, I'm not feeling good, and she was on some kind of antibiotics or something. So they checked her in and they gave her IV. So I didn't know she's remembering something. My mom wasn't there when this happened.

Lo Shapera: 46:42

So when I called Auntie to just fill her in, let her know how mom was doing in the personal care home on the first day back, I'm like and the funny story. She says once they unhooked my IV, they hooked yours up like auntie's up, and Auntie Di goes she had no way of knowing that. I'm like what do you mean? She says no, I wasn't feeling good and they admitted me and I had to have IV because I was having a reaction to the antibiotic I was on. She's like how does your mom know that?

Vaness Henry: 47:16

And I'm like I think she could see something from elsewhere.

Lo Shapera: 47:17

Yeah, what do you think? What do you think's going on there? Let me pull up her design for a minute here. Yvette, I think that she was okay. This is just me, and I've talked to my sibling and he thinks the same thing. It was breakfast time, so they were coming to wake up mom to get her ready for changed and up for breakfast. She was unresponsive. She had probably just gone into that state seconds moments before and they revived her by doing this and she probably had a death experience and that's why she said good chance, I didn't die Right and came back sort of yeah awakened a little bit, but now it's like she's ultra tired again I've pulled up her design, which is very interesting.

Vaness Henry: 47:56

She's a 1-4 pure generator. She has defined head centers with all the channels activated, so like one of the most powerful minds you could have, so curious that she's losing her mind. She's an undefined throat and she has a totally open heart, so you have an undefined heart too. It's curious that you had two kids with defined, powerfully defined hearts.

Lo Shapera: 48:17

What is my head? Do I have that same thing as her? No, you do not.

Vaness Henry: 48:22

You have an undefined head, so you have the potential to be very wise on our what we believe, in the way we think about things. You have the potential to be very wise about whether we have to prove ourselves and go after things that other people want us to do rather than what we want to do. And your mom was also very wise there as well. She's as somebody who's totally open-hearted. She has the potential she has unlimited potential in that area to be deeply wise in our values and what is important to us and what we whether we have to prove ourselves or not and what we kind of do in our lives. So her design is very interesting in this way, but I don't have a very specific birth time for her.

Vaness Henry: 49:03

I just have three, so I can't really look any deeper into what's going on there because, like looking at her variables, I guess I need a really specific birth time, but if we're, if we're around the right time, she's innocence motivation, like you. So you and her would understand things in the same way and you would be very drawn to just well, what would be fun and what do I want to do? I don't want to go get all caught up and all that shit and rallying and bring change and I don't care. I just want to go do what I want to do.

Lo Shapera: 49:34

I don't remember. I don't know if you remember, but you know sometimes it'd be a lot of commotion going on in my mom, gina. She would say big whoop.

Vaness Henry: 49:42

Yeah, yeah, well, or well, well, big whoop.

Lo Shapera: 49:47

Like people are stressing about something, big whoop. So we teased her about it, right, but she'd always say it and she wouldn't say much. But when she'd say big whoop, it was like, yeah, we need to just relax, like it's not a big deal. And I find myself saying that sometimes people are like little. I'm like big freaking whoop. I have to throw freaking in there because it gives a little more.

Vaness Henry: 50:07

I know you have quite the flowery language which I have inherited, If you so, you didn't swear.

Lo Shapera: 50:13

Not when you were a kid.

Vaness Henry: 50:15

Give me a fricking break. Are you kidding me?

Lo Shapera: 50:18

Not around.

Vaness Henry: 50:18

Didn't my father's parents pull you aside?

Lo Shapera: 50:22

and ask you to stop swearing.

Vaness Henry: 50:23

They asked me to stop saying shit. Oh shit. And you didn't even realize how much you were saying shit. So there's a chance you didn't realize how much you swore, are you?

Lo Shapera: 50:32

kidding me. If I would have been saying the other words, they would have pointed those out too.

Vaness Henry: 50:36

Oh my God, Huxley has started saying mother trucker, oh mother trucker, and I'm like that's a little that's a little close.

Lo Shapera: 50:45

I wanted to swear as a kid but I couldn't. But you know whatever Well you.

Vaness Henry: 50:55

But you know whatever well you always. Let me swear now if I said I remember I said piss once and my dad washed my mouth out with soap whoa. I think that's very. That's really not okay, by the way, but I don't remember that. But he did. He put me in the bathroom by the pool and did liquid soap pump pump under my mouth and I was like yeah, and I was bubbles coming out of my fucking mouth.

Vaness Henry: 51:10

You can't do that now, by the way. You probably couldn do that then, but it happened to me because I said piss. I was like the dog had to go, went for a piss because he said that. So I was repeating him and oh, did I get in trouble? Anyway, but he didn't like when I, when I spoke like that, he found it very disrespectful. However, after he passed, I was swearing left, right and center and you never stopped me. I remember when you started dating, ted, I was a very young teen. I would swear all the time and you just thought it was funny. You never corrected my speech ever, ever. And people will sometimes be like. You got to let out your feelings. Well, yeah, and people will sometimes be like. I had a friend out this summer. Man, vanessa, you can be so crass and I'm like I think it's funny. I think language is colorful and flowery and I do swear around my kid, but he knows it's not like. He knows it's not appropriate for him.

Lo Shapera: 51:59

Just recently I've been watching these, you know podcasts and some older women and you know, and it's, it's. It's not cool for an older women to swear and I'm like, no, who cares, I'm freaking doomed.

Vaness Henry: 52:11

If I hit a bad shot at golf.

Lo Shapera: 52:13

It's like God damn it.

Vaness Henry: 52:15

Like you know whatever you're filtering hardcore but you swear, and I think I think it's fine, I think it's funny. I don't. I think censorship is a bit unnecessary and pointless, to be honest. But I understand that it doesn't sound nice if a little kid's like motherfucker, like I get it. Do you know what I mean?

Lo Shapera: 52:31

And and also, but I always laugh when it happens. It's like, why do I think it's funny?

Vaness Henry: 52:37

I do too.

Lo Shapera: 52:37

I don't know like I watch those videos and the mom says you can say one bad word. One little boy goes poo-poo and then the youngest one, the three-year-old, goes motherfucker, motherfucker, oh yeah, and she goes, you need to stop. I said say it once, and he won't stop. And I'm like hysterically laughing like mom, okay, mom.

Vaness Henry: 52:54

So. So Hawksley was having this hard episode and he was having bad dreams and it was. He watched something scary and he couldn't get out of his head. And I was like let's draw a picture and we'll get it out of your head that way, we'll rip it up. So he drew a picture and we're ripping it up and he's like I just feel like swearing. I was like this is a safe space, but you can swear, say any swear you want, and rip it. He goes motherfucker, son of a bitch. And I'm I'm like okay, keep it together, keep it together like it's okay. Yeah, just get it out. And he feels so, he's feeling better. And I'm just like trying to like be supportive, but I was.

Vaness Henry: 53:26

I was. I thought it was fucking hilarious, excuse me, but like I thought, it was.

Lo Shapera: 53:30

See, I think you need to know when the when it's appropriate.

Vaness Henry: 53:34

Yeah, he definitely does. We let him. If there's a swear in the song, sure Go ahead. It's okay, we're in the car, sing aloud, doesn't matter.

Lo Shapera: 53:40

I mean, you guys never swore in front of your grandparents ever.

Vaness Henry: 53:44

Oh, never they would have. I would have never, cause they had exactly. My dad's side was very strict and I was scared of your side. Do you know what I mean?

Lo Shapera: 53:53

And my mom never swore. And then when we did hear, like as an adult, I heard her swear and I was like how did you say that she goes? You don't think I know the words. And then she'd say it and she was such a little tiny person.

Vaness Henry: 54:06

I heard her swear and I lived. I loved it. I was like go Jimaima, like I would encourage her and egg her on.

Lo Shapera: 54:12

It was like well, of course we all teased her Right and she was like I think her, her version of swear was probably big whoop, big whoop, exactly Now that I think of it.

Vaness Henry: 54:22

So let's, let's immortalize her teachings to you. Then, if you're kind of looking back at your life with her and she's 87, you're 65, you've had 65 years with her what are the teachings that your mother has really given you in your life? What stands out to you? Patience, so not rushing to get everything finished before you can relax, slow down the rain. You don't have to do it all right now. The world won't end if it doesn't get done right now.

Lo Shapera: 54:51

Well, I think I might have more patience now and do what brings you pleasure, like if you don't like it, don't do it. Don't do it for someone else, you need to do it for yourself. Another thing I found interesting about my mom was we often said to her well, why don't you get a like after my dad passed away? Why don't you get a boyfriend or something? Not interested? Never dated again, never. It's like she was not going to put herself through that or take a chance on putting herself through that, right.

Vaness Henry: 55:20

So I just want to jump in. When you say put herself through that, you mean have a relationship like that again, because there was some issues in it, yeah, okay.

Lo Shapera: 55:28

Because you often attract the same thing until you learn. And what do you think she attracted? Somebody who dominated her Open heart that didn't let her speak, didn't let her Undefined throat, visit her family?

Vaness Henry: 55:42

Oh, so that's an abusive relationship, right?

Lo Shapera: 55:45

Well, totally A hundred percent, A hundred percent.

Vaness Henry: 55:47

So does that make you feel some kind of way when you, when you look, I don't feel my parents had an abusive relationship. No, I my memories of you and dad were very in love. I would catch you sometimes in the kitchen kissing and being all embarrassed, Like I remember and he was a six line. Sorry, go ahead.

Lo Shapera: 56:04

If anything it it. It made me realize that I need, I will not accept those things with a partner or a spouse.

Vaness Henry: 56:12

That's what she taught you.

Lo Shapera: 56:14

Somebody in my life. If somebody is going to hurt me, you are out of my life and I will never think twice about it. It's done.

Vaness Henry: 56:22

I carry that as well and sometimes I have it's been reflected to me that I can be brutal with that. I have a brutality to me that if you, I will give you so much grace because I understand you and I'm willing to understand you and if you keep crossing me and you keep defying me and you keep mistreating me, there reaches a point where I cannot hold any more grace for you and it might seem like it comes out of the blue where I just cut you off. But I've already gone so far past what I probably should have that there's no way you can reenter, because I've lost respect for you and it's not healthy for you, it's not safe for me, exactly.

Vaness Henry: 56:59

And it's actually no ill will toward them. If anything, letting them go is what's best for them and me, because I'm a participant in that relationship and I'm allowing them to behave that way with me and so I'm just as responsible. So as soon as I realized that I do cut it off, you know, and I and I I see now that that may have come from your tutelage and your guidance on some of the things you experienced and then I witnessed what you went through and that helped me to kind of create that character in myself.

Lo Shapera: 57:28

And often, like even like now I'll get a bad vibe, bad feeling about someone. I've just met the person, but they just give me a bad feeling. It's like they might be nice, there's just something about them that doesn't sit right with me and I just I don't, even, I'm not. I don't want to say, give them a chance, but it's not somebody, you're not open to them.

Vaness Henry: 57:52

Yeah, it's like no, I want to point this out right where this shows up in your design You're. I shared with you that you're a markets person. That's your environment variable and you have this deep undertone. As you're navigating the playing field of life, you have a sense of smell. So this is someone who has super keen instincts. So all of a sudden you might have an encounter and it's like Nope, well, why? I don't know why it's a no, well, why you haven't even given them a chance? I don't have to. It's not safe for me. There's something that I'm picking up on. That's a very, very keen instinct with you and it's there to keep you safe and guide you. And if you would disobey that and not honor that instinct, you would likely have some type of harmful encounter. So you do not always need to know why, but you have always.

Vaness Henry: 58:35

I, as someone who's witnessed you through your life, you've always had very keen instincts. You know, I remember I we would go to places like I don't like it, I don't know why I'm, I'll be in the car, I know, and that's what's okay for you. But I witnessed how people were hard on you for that or judged you for that. Or she's too sensitive? Well, maybe she is, maybe that is too much for her. Yeah, it may not be for you, but it is for her, so give her that respect.

Vaness Henry: 59:01

As your kid mom, there were a lot of encounters I witnessed as a woman of the 90s where you were mistreated, and I don't know that you have fully accepted that, because even as I point out these things to you, you still dodge it and dismiss it like other people had it harder. Well, you still had it hard and you, you have this beautiful mind where you're able to look at your life and be like I had an incredible life, and I find that so inspiring because you did have an incredible life. I did. You also had bonds that broke and these hard things, which is a part of life.

Vaness Henry: 59:31

And even though you even though you had these hard things, it's like your cup was always half full At least that's how it seems. When you're at this era in your life where you're like it just keeps getting better and better. Even though there are hardships that still find me, I know I'll always be okay because I have something deeper to fall back on.

Lo Shapera: 59:48

I'm still trying to figure out what that is, that depth that you're falling back on, but it's there, yeah, I mean I don't know, like, like I know that I have instinct about things, like I just feel things and when it doesn't feel right, I used to often well, I'm gonna try it right because, and then burn it's like no. So I think over the years I've learned no, it's not for me and I don't have to and nobody's going to make me do it.

Vaness Henry: 1:00:20

I also feel I want to say as your, as your child, thank you for raising me that way, because I don't feel you forced me to do things I didn't want to do there. When I was younger, there were some like you fucking dragged me to church and I was like I do not want to do this, lorraine, I do not want to do this. Why am I doing this? But I understand now. As a child, my parent was going through a trauma and needed to lean on her faith and she was trying to show that to me as well, because it was that's what she needed. And so when we go through hardship, perhaps it's very wise to lean on our faith.

Vaness Henry: 1:00:55

I was someone who had to go find what that faith was for myself, but I see what you were doing there. But I think we had this one particular confrontation once in the backyard where you gave up on me, where you're like fine, don't go. And I went home and you went to church and from that point on, if I didn't want to do it, you were kind of like listen to your body, you don't want to do it, trust yourself, like you always trusted me and what I knew was okay for me. I wasn't a strong swimmer. As a kid I was afraid of the water and you were like don't force her in, she doesn't want to like you kind of. You had my back.

Vaness Henry: 1:01:25

Because I was scared and I didn't like to be forced to do it, so I got it Right and you were, and you had that childhood where you were always forced to do things you didn't want to do, and so you know, maybe you caught yourself sometimes, but I don't really have a lot of memory of you doing that to me and getting back to the church thing, it's not like I was a super religious person because I wasn't brought up like that Right Cause my dad didn't like the church.

Lo Shapera: 1:01:45

But I think part of me you see everybody else going and you think maybe there's something, maybe I should try it out.

Vaness Henry: 1:01:51

Well, I'm hearing a theme in your life, moon. That was your relationship with church. That was people basically said the same thing about you going into hair, why you shouldn't do that. You should go over here and everyone's going into these jobs. So I guess I'll go do that, so kind of going with the crowd sometimes, and it didn't always go well for you.

Lo Shapera: 1:02:08

And I I just as easily as I went into the church, I left the church. Do you want to tell me how and why? Because one day I was at the salon and some lady walks in and she says can I talk to you? And I've got clients. And I'm like, okay, and she says, well, this is not coming from me, this is coming from the church council and I'm like, which you were on, which I was part of so, mom, you're on the church council like you're involved in the church, mom, it's a small freaking town man I know, but like I just want you to see how involved you are so she comes up to me and I'm like, okay, and so this is in front of my clients in my salon.

Lo Shapera: 1:02:41

And she says inappropriate we don't approve of the way you're dressing in church. You might as well have stabbed me in the heart, of course, and I'm like, excuse me, I'm wearing a flicking black turtleneck, black skirt and black tights and you don't like what? I'm a freaking widow man. I got the black on because I love black but you.

Vaness Henry: 1:03:02

But you were the most beautiful woman in town and you were suddenly single and so you were a huge threat. Do you see that now?

Lo Shapera: 1:03:10

oh, I, oh, I, oh, I totally see it now. But it was like, and I was friends with father and it was like, who happened to be a cousin, so I was like, I phoned him up. I'm like, did, did you hear about this? And he goes no, but I can bet I know who said it. And I'm like, just so you know, I won't be be at the meeting tonight, I'm off the council and don't ever expect me to see you. Yes, let's, let's talk about this. I'm like no, I'm done like I was not gonna so you were burned by them, broke the bond.

Vaness Henry: 1:03:40

They're done.

Lo Shapera: 1:03:41

You know what, no problemo you very, fuck you energy.

Vaness Henry: 1:03:45

I'm here in a time of need, you know.

Lo Shapera: 1:03:47

I remember when you, when you like, good Christian screw off in front of my clients and everybody in my salon had their mouth open like did we hear right, it's embarrassing, right, and so it's.

Vaness Henry: 1:03:58

There's a humiliation in there as well, and I and I tried to get out of her.

Lo Shapera: 1:04:01

Well, who said it? She says well, I can't tell you who said. I'm just the messenger, how'd?

Vaness Henry: 1:04:06

that feel might have had a few swear words yeah, but but how did mom? How did Well, you?

Lo Shapera: 1:04:12

you think that your, your community, would support you and not talk about you. So it was very hurtful, so the best thing that I could do is you know what? I'm having nothing to do with you. So what, what did?

Vaness Henry: 1:04:25

you do, though I'm a tough little.

Lo Shapera: 1:04:27

I just surround myself with my people, but that's your but who was your people just surround myself with my people. But who was your people? Because I would have thought that was your people. Well, no, because see, I was new at the church. I hadn't gone before. Okay, when your dad was alive, we never went to church?

Vaness Henry: 1:04:40

No, because he was. I don't know if he was an atheist or what, but he was very anti. I used to call him a little pagan, like I know, but also I remember you calling him a little pagan. But do you know what a pagan is like? These are people who are like, wiccan, like or excuse me, they. They have a relationship with the earth and they're spiritual in a different way.

Lo Shapera: 1:04:54

Right word, I just called.

Vaness Henry: 1:04:55

I just called him, you were wanting to say atheist, you were you want to say like non-believer basically, and you were using that as like a weapon and I don't remember him caring at all.

Lo Shapera: 1:05:04

He was like okay whatever yeah, well then that was it. It was easy for me to leave because it was like something that I had tried, and you know what Didn't?

Vaness Henry: 1:05:12

work. Didn't need it anymore, no, so who did you lean on after that?

Lo Shapera: 1:05:16

You know, I had a couple of close friends. I mean, Father Marcel was still my friend, Like we still talked and still you know, he was one of your, you were one of your closest friends, was a priest, and it was kind of funny because there was actually a story that you know oh, maybe they're having an affair. It was like I remember that that really serious.

Vaness Henry: 1:05:34

That really rocked me as a child, thinking that, well, you went for a walk every night, like after, after my dad died part I see now part of the way you grieved him and processed. You know you're an emotional authority person. You're going to have these waves of feelings. You would walk with the priest, father Marcel, every night, even the middle of winter. You would bundle up and you'd be gone for two hours walking, probably talking about your fucking devastation and heartache of losing the person you love. And who better to be there than someone who is a man of faith like that? And so, because they're seeing you walk with this person every night, they're starting rumors Like. And so, because they're seeing you walk with this person every night, they're starting rumors. They're not even like he's your cousin but whatever. Like you were. Just all of a sudden we feel bad for you. Here's a. Here's some flowers low. Here's some some food low. And then, all of a sudden, you were a threat and you were the single woman on the town and you didn't date Like. You didn't date Like. I remember being like when are you going to date? But the perception of you had totally changed. And, as I can't express this enough.

Vaness Henry: 1:06:37

As the child witnessing the mistreatment of their mother, that created a rage in me and I see now how that came out on the plane, like on the playground, I should say. At school I would get into big scraps, big fights, because there was no way for me to figure out how to deal with it. Think about it it's very upsetting to see your mother mistreated. And there is this thing in us that is you will not disrespect my mother. I had have disrespected you, you know, but your friends disrespected you and I was like I couldn't understand it, mom. It was so infuriating to me and contributed to a lot of the rage that I had. Now I, looking back, I can see that a lot of my rage was kind of groomed by my family, cause we somewhat had a family who had an angry side. We had a. The French side had were angry French people and they would snap and freak out.

Vaness Henry: 1:07:35

And it was kind of acceptable, even though it's not, you know, but it kind of was our families like that, and so, as my hormones started developing and there's, I don't like my mom is suffering and I don't like how she's being treated. I didn't really know how to deal with it. And I can see now that I'm an adult and a parent, that there was. I didn't even know how to express that to you because I don't think I fully understood what I was seeing, but I heard what people were saying and I didn't like hearing that. I remember you being in the pool in the backyard and the construction workers next door lining up lawn chairs to watch you suntan and bathe in the pool, and I remember being infuriated that they would do that Like leave her alone, and no one would leave you alone. It drove me crazy as the person, as the kid, just wanted to protect the mom.

Lo Shapera: 1:08:25

You know, see, maybe my dad groomed me for that, because I was really good at ignoring.

Vaness Henry: 1:08:30

You would disassociate Absolutely. Well you're telling me that's your thing and that's not a very healthy coping mechanism, but I see that it's what you. You needed it for survival.

Lo Shapera: 1:08:39

Yeah, cause I and it's funny that you say survival Cause I remember going for a walk with father one night and he said you're in survival mode and you can't live in that mode all the time. You can't, so you either do something about it, tell those people. You know, like when, when I was leaving making my deposit one night, some older man came out of the credit union or whatever and said you know, don't worry, honey, nothing lasts forever. Meaning you know I had lost my husband, don't worry, it doesn't last forever. And I went, I went no shit, asshole, good for you. And father was standing beside me and he goes was that necessary? And I'm like, was it necessary for him to say that?

Vaness Henry: 1:09:22

absolutely. I'm 40 years old. I'm fucking with you because we don't know how to deal with grief and we say things like they'll be in a better place or you know, we, we don't know what to say because we're so uncomfortable and we don't realize that's the last thing the person wants to hear. That's the most dismissive thing to their experience. What we, what people need, is to affirm the grief and the emotions. I'm so sorry for your loss. That is devastating news. Just say what happened, don't brush it off. Then you're brushing off my entire experience with that person. That's not the most compassionate. That's you not knowing what to say and do and you being uncomfortable and you trying to bypass my experience.

Lo Shapera: 1:09:59

Fuck you so good for you for saying that If you don't know what to say, don't say anything. Shut the fuck up, absolutely, absolutely.

Vaness Henry: 1:10:07

But I mean, you raised me, so what? Can I say Anyway, I want to be respectful of your time. Thank you for coming and opening yourself up this way and letting me. I don't know why you let me tell your life story like this, but you always seem to let me make an example of you. My sister doesn't Not all my family members. Let me talk about them.

Lo Shapera: 1:10:26

You have always encouraged me, you do.

Vaness Henry: 1:10:30

Absolutely, you do, you, and so you have passed on some teachings from your own mom. So I want to pass on some teachings that you have passed on to me.

Lo Shapera: 1:10:38

And if some of my teachings aren't right, you need to figure that out.

Vaness Henry: 1:10:42

There is no right or wrong. No right or wrong. I don't even I don't. That doesn't resonate with me. There's just different ways to perceive information, you know, and some of the things that you have left with me, and I won't be able to capture them all right now. But patience, absolutely. Go at your own pace, go at your own flow, do what brings you pleasure. If people are disrespecting you, they don't deserve you. No, and get that. I love when you just affirm right away no.

Vaness Henry: 1:11:10

Yeah, they. If they're disrespecting you, they don't deserve to have a relationship with you. But sometimes you play a part in that dynamic and you need to evaluate what you what you did.

Vaness Henry: 1:11:21

We need to lean on our communities, but our communities are not God, and if they cross us or hurt us, we do not have to stay in that community. Taking care of your family is incredibly important and it can look a lot of different ways. But also, you've taught me that we can make family in a lot of different ways. It's not always biological family. I have stepsisters. You married a Jewish man. You have people in my life who are aunties and uncles, who I'm not even actually related to, but I would call them auntie and uncles. So you can make your own family and it's always important to invest in yourself and take care of yourself and not expect someone else to take care of you. That's one of your biggest teachings to me is figure out how to take care of yourself. You can take care of other people, sure, but take care of yourself first.

Lo Shapera: 1:12:09

If you're not taking care of yourself, you cannot take care of yourself first. If you're not taking care of yourself, you cannot take care of someone else.

This was a 6-2 studio production. Find us at six-two.studio for all your creative sound needs.

Vaness Henry

No. 22 - Returning to the Mother with Lo

No. 23 - Decoding Body Messages

No. 21 - World-building as a Modern Healing Modality with Ari Felix