No. 13 - Making an Impact with Holly Herbig
Come hang with me and my friend Holly, head of the Manifestor Community, as we explore managing the creative urge and some of the things we produce while wielding that kind of intense energy. Holly Herbig is a 4/6 Splenic Manifestor with a Shores Environment and a View of Possibility; she recently released the first ever book exclusively for Manifestors, Informed: The Comprehensive Guide for Human Design Manifestors.
How do you manage reality when you don't have an urge present? What are these grey areas in the Manifestor experience? Is Manifestor trauma different? Holly shares the details of writing her book, and I dig into her Variable to see how she did it. She describes needing more energy, and how working with others is one of the most supportive things for a Manifestor to engage with. Manifestors don't need to do things alone. In fact, we're only as good as the team around us.
Holly shares her incredibly-inspiring health journey and how she entered remission despite having a life-long illness. After 20 years of chemo, she healed, putting her into a rare category. With Holly's background in nursing, and her awareness of auto-immune diseases, she brings interesting insight to the Splenic experience and illness.
Catch up with me and Holly to hear about some of the strategies in our work and how we manage Manifestor energy in the real world.
Find Holly's work at:
Manifestor Community
INFORMED - the Book
Manifestor Courses
Instagram
Vaness Henry:
0:03
It's Vaness Henry, you're listening to insights, my private podcast exclusively for community members like you. Here's my latest insight. I wanted to have my friend Holly Herbig on the show today to do kind of a manifestory special. Whether you are having a manifestor experience, maybe you're raising a manifestor, maybe you love and adore a manifestor, it's going to be all things manifestor. Welcome to the show, holly.
Holly Herbig:
0:38
Thank you, Vaness. You're like one of my favorite people in the world, so I always love having time with you on my calendar. I can talk to you all day.
Vaness Henry:
0:48
Well, Holly is a quad left, splenic manifester. She's a four six, the cross of consciousness, love, that that's so cool. And Holly has a defined spleen and a defined ego and a defined throat. She's a pretty open manifester and her heart, connecting to her spleen and the channel of surrender, is unconscious, and then reaching up to her throat, is partially unconscious.
Vaness Henry:
1:13
So I just I love this about you because so much of your splenic instincts are in the body and so there's this aspect of deep surrender to the body, and yet your quad left, where there's this structure and activation. And the way I think this all fits together perfectly is when I go look at your consciousness, cross of consciousness, your personality variables are both second colors possibility, view and hope, motivation. This is, this is so hopeful surrender, trust, ah, like it. So it makes absolute, perfect fucking sense to me. She's also shores, which we love. We love to resonate with shores, and I like to just kind of add that in. How does it feel, by the way, when I point you out in this way and I read you like that?
Holly Herbig:
1:57
I fucking love it.
Holly Herbig:
1:59
I love it. My experience of myself is that I feel like I have these two like polarized extremities of my energy, that on one hand I am, I guess, like deeply masculine in one aspect. It is very structured, very routine, very organized, very scheduled, and I thrive in that environment. I love operating in those ways. But then I have this equally weighted counterpart that is very esoteric, it's very receptive, it's very ambiguous, it's also very like altruistic, community focused, it's flowy. So I've always found, I think, before coming into these particular depths of human design, that any other language I found for self-awareness and personal development never actually captured that in me, that I'd either get one or the other. I'd either get like oh, you're so creative and so free and I'm like I am, but or I get.
Holly Herbig:
2:59
you're really correct, You're really driven, you're a facilitator, you're a teacher, you're really correct, you're really driven, you're a facilitator, you're a teacher, you're a leader and I'm like, I am that also, but right. So I think that for me, looking at the variables, in particular in human design, and how that then fits with these other aspects of my chart, like all of that unconscious energy, all of the openness, the splenic authority, it formed a whole picture to me and actually put language to it. Where I went. Thank Christ, now it's got some language, now I can actually describe myself.
Vaness Henry:
3:33
I love that. I feel like when I see people discover their variable, you watch them go through, I think a moment of I feel like self-love or something. Oh, you know, it's like this little innocent. Oh, my God, like you're self-interested through that self-inquiry and there's this big preaching energy about your design type and your authority. You know strategy and authority, strategy and authority, strategy and authority. I get that. That's cool, fun, play with that, love that. And also there's some limits around that. You see the frustration of the generators. You see the anger of the manifestors.
Vaness Henry:
4:10
There is something healing when you go into the depths of variable because you're asking yourself to look at yourself another way and look at some nuances in your character. And we're we're not always encouraged to do that Like, we're very encouraged to be kind and understand others and don't harm other people. It's very much about the experience, interacting with the other, rather than the self-inquiry and self-understanding. So I agree with you. Like when we come into this part of the design, something interesting happens and you've built a very successful platform of spotlighting the manifestor experience and, as the four, six profile gathering the community of manifestors I was. So I love that you've done this. I felt like there was talk a couple of years ago of, like you know, is that what I want to do? Is that the way? And it was like yes, you're the one to do that. Look at your profile, look at your design, look at you. Go, go, go. You know, I felt like I was so lit up.
Vaness Henry:
5:06
And there was also, like I recall, that dialogue or I think we're going to be called the manifestor community or informers or something, or you know. And then, once that clicked into place, it was like it was always there, but it shifted in this way. And then all the strategy, all the quad left the content coming out, the schedule, the seasonal rhythm, like it was a machine. It was a very impressive machine, and out of this machine came the world's first ever book exclusively for manifestors Informed, yeah, okay. What a personal achievement. What a community achievement as well. How was it for you? I would love to just hear the experience of birthing this and what that was like for you.
Holly Herbig:
5:53
It was, it was quirky, it was, it was actually really unexpected and I think, like as part of my journey of being this facilitator and sort of being this like manifesto on display, figurehead in front of other manifesto, yeah yeah, which is still challenging for me, right as an undefined g-center, I'm really like why are you echoing it to you?
Vaness Henry:
6:17
just claim the claim, the figurehead, hi I run the manifesto community.
Holly Herbig:
6:22
Yeah, that is, that is me, yeah, and I found that like what was really a supportive place for me to sit in integrity and feeling like I was in integrity with me, with my Manifestor energy, was to always create from creative urges. So for the first few years in the business, that's all I did. So for the first few years in the business, that's all I did, and really almost our entire product suite that we have now are all based on creative urges. I didn't create strategically. I didn't create from ideas. I didn't create things that people asked me to create.
Vaness Henry:
6:56
If I may, you can't, because you've now taken up the figurehead of I run the manifestor community. So we're looking to you to be really an ultimate example, and so there's a fucking pressure with that.
Vaness Henry:
7:08
I want to just say and acknowledge but also like if I'm here to show and be a model, an example of what it looks like to operate fully as a manifestor. While having compassion for the ways that I might trip, I must create from the experience of the urge and also talk about what that is like. So I just want to acknowledge the pressure that's there, cause we've now just said we put you on a pedestal. You know six line shit. We've got you there as the, as the figurehead or whatever, and so I really think of the four, six.
Holly Herbig:
7:36
David Beckham I don't know if you watched the documentary and the Beckhams and how he was used as, like, the poster boy like you know, torn down like it's a very four, six experience it is I very, I very much feel that, yeah, and I, and so I'm very conscious and very intentional about making sure that I manage the only thing that I can manage, which is that my energy is in integrity with me and I am not doing things because they are profitable or lucrative or expected or any of those things.
Holly Herbig:
8:06
So I felt for a long time that the way that I needed to do that was only to sell things. That were my creative urges. But over time I think I built more of a capacity for that and started to experience very classic manifest Right, like I know I want to do it differently Now. I want to take up a different space Now. I want to like push that growth edge, and so I wanted to experiment with now that I have this system in place. I've got an incredible team of staff, incredible team who take care of so much and they're so supportive.
Vaness Henry:
8:40
You've created a generator, right, You've created an operating you've created a generator.
Holly Herbig:
8:48
You've created a generator, right, you've created an operating. You've created a generator, you've created that business. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah, it's the machine. And the machine works Totally.
Holly Herbig:
8:52
And what that left me open to do was to start having more fluidity with what I initiated, that all of my energy didn't need to go only into initiating my creative urges, because I have so many people that helped me bring creative urges forward. So I've got energy left over now. So I yeah, I wanted to start playing with, like where can I lend my initiating energy to other things in ways that is still in integrity? And what I really noticed was that the community was just needing this like super comprehensive but super accessible resource. And for me, because I have gig five, I'm very focused on patterns. I love, yeah, I love to pick up like where's the rhythm, where's the pattern? I've also got 44, so it's I I see, like the currencies that are moving in things. I I'm such a geek with my own community about that. I'm always like where's the movement, guys? What are all the manifestors doing? Where are the connections?
Vaness Henry:
9:53
What are you?
Holly Herbig:
9:53
talking about? What are you saying that you need? What are you struggling with? Yeah, and I really I love to serve in that way. That really makes me feel nourished and strong in serving in that way. So I knew that I wanted to write a book, that a book was necessary, but because it was not coming through creative urge for me, my energy was just not online for it. So for about a year it just kept slipping to the bottom of my list, Cause I was like I'll do it when I've got more energy left over to do it. I'll get to that. I'll get to that, Okay. And then I didn't have energy, so I just you know what?
Vaness Henry:
10:27
you said. You said a while ago. You were like I remember your Voxering or something, holly, and you were like I, the want was out there, like I want to write a book. I am writing a book and also you know, yeah.
Vaness Henry:
10:39
So, so it's like it's so strange when you have the desire but you don't have the urge, and it's like you, you literally can't go. Like the, it can be aligned Cause you're, you're looking out at the horizon. I want that, I want that, I want that, but you've got to wait for your fuel to, you got to wait to gear up and then then you'll go, you know. So you just got to get your eyes, your sights, set on it, in a way.
Holly Herbig:
11:01
Which can be a really funky ground to sit in. Yeah.
Vaness Henry:
11:06
Right.
Holly Herbig:
11:07
I think that a lot of people don't realize that about manifestors when we're really honoring our energy cycle, there are these kind of gray murky in between periods where we can see things coming, we can see things that we want, but we literally just cannot step into it, and you know, that's kind of fatiguing in itself.
Vaness Henry:
11:27
Super fatiguing, super fatiguing.
Holly Herbig:
11:31
I've got to hold that vision, but I can't walk it, you know oh.
Vaness Henry:
11:35
I find that so discouraging, you know, and I'm sensitive to that shit. Like I see it, I want it, but not yet. That's when I that's when I realized how strategic I am. I'm not quad left, but I love that you are. I love going to you and just feeling that. I'm receptive to my environment. That's my one. My one passive variables, the environment variable, and so much of my work is focused on that specific area. You know the one aspect of rightness in my design anyway, which is cool. It is kind of cool.
Holly Herbig:
12:06
Anyway.
Vaness Henry:
12:07
I love this. I love this kind of structure though the of you, of this quad leftist, and I love to kind of plug in and witness it, something that I had wanted to mention. There's a few people around me who've kind of been on insights with me, who have written books and are writing books, and I look at their variable for how different the process is. Rachel Lieberman put a book out and she's got leftness and rightness in her internal variables, and so she was quite strategic. You know she was strategic in taking her blog posts.
Vaness Henry:
12:34
Ac Brown, who is passive. In that way she has a completely different approach. There was no original thing to reference and build out over time. There wasn't strategy in that way. It was needing the editor to come and focus them and provide the guidance in that way, and so I'm imagining you're going to have a different experience of quad left, but I remember that the desire was there long ago. It was that there were so many other things that needed a little bit of arranging or something again so strategic in order to move those lily pads that you could hop on them to get to where you want to go, and I myself resonate with that. I've got a bunch of really big projects on the go, but it's like fuck, I can't do them all, damn, I'm gonna have to push them all way back. But that's when working seasonally becomes so strategic, especially you got to make money right Like you're. You're being creative with your resources.
Vaness Henry:
13:25
Right and so so, anyways, thank you for entertaining my, my winding thing there. But what? What is, what was the process for you as somebody who's highly strategic?
Holly Herbig:
13:35
It was enormously structured. It was incredibly strategic, like almost anal retentive right I love that.
Vaness Henry:
13:42
I love that. I know it sounds like anal retentive, but also that's what your quad left Like. What do we expect You're going to be? No, it's got to be this, this, this. Yeah, I love it.
Holly Herbig:
13:51
Yeah, and I, I, because it was not an urge, because it was just an energy that I was leaning into and bringing my skills to and my resources to as well. I needed that structure, I needed the container to sit within, so I knew the walls to bounce against and I kind of I, I had everything there, I had it in place, I had the general outline and I think you and I had actually had a conversation somewhere along the way and you had mentioned a book and you'd said to me the book is already written, you've just got to bring it together.
Vaness Henry:
14:24
And I was like, geez right, because you're so left, so it's, the book is already written, you've just got to bring it together. And I was like she's right, because you're so left, so it's, so you've already done it now because, holly, I don't know that I've been thinking about this, okay, but thinking about this can't wait for your perspective. I don't know that manifestors write books on urges, because an urge is somewhat of a concentrated experience. It can happen cyclically, it can happen periodically, for sure, but it's not like you sit down and urge and write the whole book. I say that because my history in publishing is, in short, fiction and poetry and novellas, and so for those they were small enough that I was able to sit down and write out a very concentrated body of work in that way, and then it was used in an anthology with other writers who done the same thing and that made up the book, my longest piece I ever wrote, which was more of a novella, which is not as long as a novel, but it's getting a bit substantial. That was done in a whole big sitting, like over a weekend. So again concentrated like piece and then back away from it for like over a weekend. So again concentrated like piece and then back away from it for like over a month and then come back when it's fresh again and edit it and then submit that to the editor.
Vaness Henry:
15:34
A book is not a novella, is not a piece of poetry, it's a whole other beast that takes planning. That I always thought would be quite challenging for someone who had a lot of right variables, a lot of passivity in their design. It's like they would need an agent. They would need someone to like focus them in that way you know what I mean Like something to kind of bring it together, like that. But when you have a lot of leftness, it's like and this is where I thought Rachel Lieberman was really quite did something, quite good. She had been blogging for years and it was like just re, just take those, arrange them and flesh them out.
Vaness Henry:
16:08
And I felt with the manifestor community it's a similar energy. I've been putting out all this content. I look at all this amazing stuff I have done. I'm going to put it together in a way for you now. That is a different whole thing. So suddenly you're making art with your own art, and I think it's not an urge, you know. So it's like this whole other. I hope that's making sense. Obviously you have the. I don't have the experience of doing it.
Holly Herbig:
16:34
But yeah, I love that perspective. I think that's incredibly correct. A book is a very, very long process. It is a, it's a relationship that you are making with that piece of art and for me, I find there's a lot of points in which I just need to surrender to it and say like I will spend time with you now, and then I need to spend time away from you, and then I will come back to you and spend time again. But ultimately, for me, with Informed, I needed more energy behind me. I didn't have what I needed to to to push it forward. And there was a one of the beautiful copywriters that I work with who is also a manifesto. We've been working together for years and she reached out to me and said I've got some space open just following the intuition. Are there any projects? You know we've always done copywriting together, like sales copy, but I also do ghost writing too, and I was like well do.
Vaness Henry:
17:30
I have a project for you.
Holly Herbig:
17:33
Yeah, I, I've learned so much over these years about being initiated by other manifestos and how rich that experience is, also how confronting it can be sometimes. But it's just, it's so, it's so big, right, it's such a big thing. And so as soon as she was involved, then that quad left came in really heavy and really strong, because then I had a, I was in relationship with someone doing it. So brought the full outline together.
Vaness Henry:
18:01
Hey, wait, I wait, I want a little moment there. I want a little moment. You're like I was in relationship with someone. You're a four six this is not a one three writing a book. So like, who is the person I'm doing it with? I think that is so important.
Vaness Henry:
18:16
There is a pair of drag Queens that I absolutely adore. I'm hugely influenced by the drag Queen community. I know a lot of people don't know this about me. I love drag. Trixie and Katya are these two drag queens and they're both manifesting generators. One's a one three and one's a four six, and through their fame, you watched one go on the roof and it's fascinating, like it's fascinating, like. So they do books together. And the other one could go do books on their own, but the force the four six is like I don't have to do that, there's other things that I would rather go do. And then there's all these other types. She goes and does movies and does these other things. It's fascinating. And so just to point out, like the the doesn't mean that you need to write a book with someone, but the act of making the art itself can be more enjoyable with the perfect witness or the perfect companion, you know, because you share it with them, and that's what's fun. We're doing it together. How fun.
Holly Herbig:
19:08
Yeah, and I've had to lean into healing around that. That was not something that I naturally well, that's not true. I energetically, naturally did do it, but I have always had a lot of fear and a lot of resistance to working closely and intimately with other people and allowing them into my work.
Vaness Henry:
19:25
Okay, yeah, I see, I think that's fair.
Holly Herbig:
19:27
Right. I've had to do a lot of healing around that four line to recognize that intimacy is safe and having relationship with other people is actually foundational for me and it does help me grow and it is a rich experience and I can trust people. There are people that I can trust to do that with me. So that's really that's changed the whole nature of how I work. I'm so much more collaborative now than I ever used to be. So the idea of like co-writing a book with someone two years ago would have been madness to me. That would have freaked me out. But you know, now I'm like oh no, this was actually a really kind of communal experience. Yeah.
Vaness Henry:
20:06
We're only so good as the team around us. You know there's so much. There's this part of this of a manifestor experience that is like aloneness, you know cause you're so contained? And and also me too, me too, me too, I hate that. Me too, I hate that. Like, don't get me wrong, hermit, I enjoy some solitude and solitary time, but I like to work and be and create with others and make something together, I think, to my own detriment sometimes, like sometimes I do have to just accept my own spotlight and just and then have the team around me to support me. And that's a journey that I still have to, kind of, I am still going on. Everything is about the other, like I don't necessarily always.
Vaness Henry:
20:44
I think sometimes there's so much emphasis on, like, the audience, the sale, the community, the collective, in that way, with overlooking the tribe, you know, overlooking the team, in your, in your work, in that way or in your expression. So at first, when, like I know, when I began this whole journey, it was just me. You know what I mean, it was just me. And then, all of a sudden, you get a virtual assistant. You know, all of a sudden, you need an editor. All of a sudden it's like well, I can do these things, so I'm going to get rid of those things. And you're like, oh shit, no, I need to, I don't have the time anymore. I got to get those things again. I maybe need more people, cause even though I have all the skills, I don't have all the time to do all these things. And so then there's this there's moments of investing in the right places and the right teammates that see you, that want things for you and themselves, but like are in that kind of team perspective.
Vaness Henry:
21:35
Yeah, the informed book is the comprehensive guide to the human design manifestor. Everything you need to know about manifestors are in there. This is sort of an amalgamation of everything that you talk about in the manifestor community. What was some of the biggest challenges then in getting this here now into my hands? Like what? Like this is now a fully formed thing that was in your head. We can now hold what were some of the biggest hurdles with.
Holly Herbig:
22:01
yeah, I think there was two. It was like this kind of strategic thing on the outside was a bit challenging. And then the other part was emotional for me, that I had a number of experiences of like. For me, this is is just amalgamation, like this is just gathering stuff that I feel like I've been saying for five years. This is not new. I've been teaching all of this and, yes, I'm bringing it all together in one place but I had this sense. It does, it feels new, holly, it does feel new, just because like.
Vaness Henry:
22:32
I know you're saying it's an amalgamation, but I just don't want that to. You know, it really is a new piece, though, the way you've done it, the way it's put together, it does have new energy. It is fresh. It's not like oh, I just put it together.
Holly Herbig:
22:47
No, like I don't want to mislead.
Holly Herbig:
22:48
You know I did still wrote a whole book. Yeah, I did no, but I think there was that sense for me of like, is this exciting enough? Like, is this actually interesting enough to create impact and to be transformational? Is this going to meet the need that I'm trying to meet here? And so there was.
Holly Herbig:
23:09
I had to kind of lay back into the trust of that a lot, and the way that I did that was to focus so much on stories, bringing stories into the book, because I wanted people to feel what I feel, which is that there is a whole community full of stories and I get to witness it Every single day.
Holly Herbig:
23:32
I get to hear stories of manifestors in the community that are growing and healing and initiating things and impacting people and resting, and it's remarkable, and I know that most people don't have access to that kind of breadth of information.
Holly Herbig:
23:47
So I wanted to bring stories in to help people feel like they belonged, and I also wanted to really honor the people that have been so impactful in my journey as a manifester and give them a spotlight in the book. So for me that felt like that kind of met my emotional need. But then, on the flip side of that this was our first time releasing a book, like it was a whole different platform, a whole different strategy, a whole different strategy, a whole different system, something to try and error, right. Yeah, it was a really steep learning curve for us and we did it in rapid pace. So by the time I actually sat down with the ghostwriter and we kind of hybrid wrote the book it was all my content that we brought together. I think she fleshed out maybe four or five chapters, I did the rest, and then she edited the whole thing. I used to be a ghostwriter.
Vaness Henry:
24:40
I don't know if you know that that was like what I feel. Everything, everything, you're saying I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done, I've done other bodies of work, but not under my pen name, you know. And so I I'm just kind of living through the experience because it's neat to think about it from the manifesto perspective.
Holly Herbig:
24:57
Yeah, exactly, but that that entire process, from beginning to end we did that in eight weeks. So from like original outline of the book yes, we're going to write this together to like literally it is out on Amazon being sold was eight weeks, and in that process, like two weeks after we started working on it, you know, pull the pieces together. Yes, we've got this plan, here's what we're going to do. I broke my ankle and had a major injury and then had a full ankle reconstruction and was down. I was physically I couldn't load bear on my foot for seven weeks, so I was physically stuck, I had to sit down, and so I cleared my entire work schedule of everything and all I could do was write Rest, rest, rest, rest.
Vaness Henry:
25:45
Which to me is so Process process.
Holly Herbig:
25:47
Yeah, correct, it's so humorous because I was like well played universe, fucking well played, well played. You know, now I can actually bring this forward in that very manifesto style. It's very fast, you know, very quick, like lightning speed. But that meant that learning how to put together a book, how to do print on demand, how to sell on Amazon, how to integrate that with our systems, like that my team was all doing that in a seven to eight week period as well. And you know, we had some, we had some kinks and we had some issues and there were some things that we thought we could do that we promoted that. Then at the last minute, we found out we couldn't actually do and some people got cranky about that and other people were incredibly supportive of it as well. But that was such a process in itself that we were a little kind of battered. Afterwards my team was a little bit bruised and really, really proud of ourselves and it was immediately successful, immediately impactful.
Vaness Henry:
26:52
Of course, though.
Holly Herbig:
26:53
It still is, but I think for us we were kind of like we just went through something and we need a minute to just sit with that and honor that. So I think we feel much more comfortable about it now. Well, if I may, I will.
Vaness Henry:
27:09
Here I go. I want to read part of chapter 13 to tell you about the experience I had with this. Page 152 on the book. This is chapter 13, ego manifestors. There are not many ego manifestors out in the world for us to be viewing. Discovering an ego manifestor is much like discovering a rare species of animal. They're worth being studied. Ego manifestors are profoundly different to other manifestors and wield a force in the world that is truly beyond comparison. One of my favorite ego manifestors to observe and be close to is the divine, incomparable vaness henry, who is an incredible human design teacher in her own right. I love watching content created by vaness with the ego voice expressing out of her throat, because not only does it have a level of authority to it that seems to make people jump into action and response, it is also marvelous to watch an ego authority listen to their own words filtered back to them through their own ears.
Vaness Henry:
28:03
I have numerous things to comment on. This was my first time being written about in this way. This was my first time being written about in this way. I was not informed and I thought that was so strategic to not inform me that you were going to do that You're like. I did the informing, I put it in the book and then the book comes to me. I'm reading the book.
Vaness Henry:
28:26
My husband goes to the ego manifestor page because that's all he cares about, because that's his life, and he's like reading it and it's written about me. Well, I nearly shit my fucking pants. I nearly shit my fucking pants. Holly, I was like that little sneak. That little sneak, here I am and like like no, go to your fucking chapter. Obviously, that's what every manifestor does, but I was. I was taking in from a different whatever. Whatever. I need to justify my actions. So then that for me was like so I want you to know that was very impactful for me personally and I had a whole fucking moment with that and needed to go sit by my window for like an hour. It was like I was like, oh my God, somebody wanted to use me as an example. It was really an example of that for me. So that was very impactful to see my name in that way and to be used as an example in that way.
Vaness Henry:
29:18
It was just for the sake of talking about energetics and the manifestor experience and the role model. Hermit, you gave me a big teaching there of you need to look at yourself now as we're writing about you in books. I was like, oh, I missed that, so I had a huge healing around that. Thank you for putting me in there in books. I was like, oh, I missed that, so I had a huge healing around that. Thank you for putting me in there in that. And also, which leads me to this teaching about manifestors that I haven't heard anywhere else. I heard it from you and I have been experimenting with it for a while now and it's been pretty profound.
Vaness Henry:
29:48
I have never heard of anyone describing the ego manifestor experience as a soundboarding experience. I think when I hear that, I'm like, oh, my God duh. Of course, I very outwardly express my adoration for the mental projector. I love their sounding board authority, but the way that you had described it was they need to soundboard. They just don't need you to hear it, like they need to be the ones to hear it, and it is.
Vaness Henry:
30:16
It is special when a manifestor hears himself or listens back to themselves. I work a lot with ego manifestors specifically and they they hear it on their tone and they're either heartbroken or they're like, oh fuck, you know, like I've got to do something about that. They don't need you to hear it, that person they're talking to and I know that might sound some kind of way because the mental projector does need it to come back to them, off your voice, and they need to create that echo chamber around them to see how it feels or how it lands in them. It's one of those things. Once you pointed it out, it was like oh my God, of course, but it was just the way you had put the examples together, allowed me to see myself in a different way, allowed me to understand my adoration with mental projector much more and then experiment differently. Holly, like it was, like sometimes it was like I'd say to my husband I don't need you to say anything, I need you to just hold space for me right now.
Vaness Henry:
31:04
I need to get this out, and he'd be, like, okay, he's open throat, he doesn't want to say anything anyway. You know, my expression still bounces off you. I still swirl energies with you. When I'm with you, I express a certain way and only through your teaching of that. And the way you described the ego, manifestor hearing themself, I thought was so profound. I don't study the manifestors as intimately as you. I'm over, invariable. I have the manifestor experience. But I love the way you talk about the splenic, the emo and the ego with such care. Personally, I think splenic manifestors are the coolest.
Vaness Henry:
31:40
I think ego manifestors are the rarest and I think emotionals are the most powerful.
Holly Herbig:
31:45
Yeah, I agree.
Vaness Henry:
31:46
They are, fucking they're. They're to me, they're the whole other creature. You know an ego manifestors and splenic manifestors like hi. Are you watching them? Cause they, they're cool, like they're doing some kind of shit over there? Yeah, I agree, yeah thank you for, thank you for all of that I really appreciate that.
Holly Herbig:
32:01
I appreciate being informed of the impact too, because I don't I don't naturally see it, but to me, like the three different authorities in manifestors are all like different personalities, they're all totally unique, different little creatures and you can put, you know kind of three different manifestors next to each other, have an emotional, have a splenic, have an ego. And even our universal connection in being manifestors is not so obvious because the way that we behave in the world is so different and I am such a geek for that, I am such a like a line six. I am all like, face pushed up against the glass of all of the manifestors around me and just observing you all like, oh my God, how do you do it? You're so different to me and the way you present is so different. And I love being impacted particularly by the ego manifesto because I find that as a manifesto, but also as a single definition, that I'm really not influenced by others a great deal.
Holly Herbig:
33:08
I appreciate advice from people and I am relationally based, but I know what is internally happening for me and I follow that as my guidebook and that's it. But when I get around ego manifestors, I find myself very quickly being picked up on the current oh really, it's way away that I'm like, yeah, 100%, yeah, you are a beautiful example. There's also another person that I work closely with, called Christopher King, who's a 2-4 ego manifester, and I find with both of you, because you have such great alignment around your ego authority when you speak, like even if I watch your stories, vanessa, I'm like, yes, do what Vanessa says. Vanessa is correct.
Holly Herbig:
33:55
I must change all things to now be in alignment with this, and then I, then I get away from your voice and I go, get away from the ego.
Holly Herbig:
34:02
I don't need to do that. Yeah, is that actually correct for me? And most of the time it is, oh, okay, but it's so. I think that ego manifestors in particular have been so wounded in that space of like minimize yourself, repress that impact. You cannot hold that power. That is not okay for a person to have that much power, and so when I get to experience a manifestor who has ego authority that is at least on the journey of owning that, I'm like my God, influence me, take me away.
Vaness Henry:
34:36
Yeah, I want to add a little, a little something to that. I have worked with numerous ego manifestors now and through them I've only been able to realize how disempowered I am or have been historically. Maybe I should say how disempowered I am or have been historically, maybe I should say because we are, we have a confidence, and people pick up on that Like we haven't. We have a trust in our abilities. And time and time again I work with ego manifestors who are self-limiting in some of the most extreme ways and they are so discouraged and they're consistent in that they're so disempowered and they're consistent in that. They're so disempowered and they're consistent in that, and yet they go about with this air of confidence but they are completely enslaved by the people around them and they're on their journeys or they're so angry that they're not behaving the way they want to. And it's really sad, to be honest, and as I kept seeing that, kept seeing that and you know, as the six two having to face that every time, I would work with someone like that, like, let's say, in a private setting or in a group setting, but but usually intimate. It's more intimate one-on-one because they'll open up to you in a different way and you see that, you see how much they they don't realize they're even doing that and I was like, oh my gosh, so I must be doing that as well. Where are the spaces? I'm not even realizing how much I'm self-limiting. Where am I like the people pleasing is so intense in the ego manifester and then also when they crack it, they could be like, so against it, like I don't care about this, I don't care if I'm going to, I'm going to upset everyone and I don't give a shit. So I'm going to upset everyone, I don't give a shit. So it can have these two extremes, but for them, from what I've seen, that that angry extreme is not what I see.
Vaness Henry:
36:20
I see a lot of fawning, a lot of manifestors who detach to survive, especially. I see that in manifestors, but I see it most prominently in ego manifestors and splenic manifestors. It's a bit different in what I see for emotional I'd be curious to hear your perception of that but the, the disconnect in order to survive, only the emotional being seemed to have more natural adeptness and not doing that. But even saying that, I've seen many emotional manifestors who are just shut down and they're not connected and you're like, wow, and they're an emotional being, but that they can't cause. It's too tumultuous around them. That's how they survive. They have to. You know, and I think that's just. Maybe that's a very common manifestor theme, but I in my data it's heavy on the ego side.
Holly Herbig:
37:04
Yeah, I 100% agree. I think that when we look at those kind of dysregulated responses that come from a chronic stress state or a chronic trauma state, which is so common for manifestors and I will die on that hill because people argue with me non-manifestors argue with me that, like everybody experiences trauma, no, we're the 9% of the population that lives behind a closed wall of energy. So, and we also initiate and we impact. We're a threat from the moment we're born.
Vaness Henry:
37:35
We're a threat a great example is like sometimes we have traumas to us and somebody is talking about their individual trauma and they feel like their, their trauma is being dismissed, and it's like, actually, we can all have our own different traumas. I think when, when I was learning first, learning about something like racism, and it was hard to contend with because it was like, well, I feel oppressed though Right, like I feel oppressed by the patriarchy, I feel oppressed by the men around me, and you know, I had some black friends who were like that's true, and you are oppressed, and also you can be oppressed in other ways. There are other parts of your identity that have more weight. You could have. Your skin might not be white. That's going to affect you.
Vaness Henry:
38:26
Your body may not be fully abled and you might have disabilities. That's going to affect you. Your body may not be fully abled and you might have disabilities. That's going to affect you. There is a series of things that you know stack on top of each other. So, yes, you are oppressed and also you're not as oppressed, but there was this disconnect, but I'm oppressed. I'm oppressed. How could you say that? And getting so angry, you know not while not yet realizing, yes, you have these aspects of things happening. You have your traumas and things that have happened, and also there are some other ones, and we're not talking about yours right now. Like you know what I mean.
Holly Herbig:
38:58
Like this is not about that.
Vaness Henry:
39:00
So I can and so imagine that the manifestor community at times might be very activating. And then when you go and want to talk about trauma and you're saying like, yes, we all get traumatized, that's true, and also I want to talk about the traumas of manifestors specifically because there is some nuance and it's fucking different. And I'm not I'm I'm telling you that, but I'm not the first person to tell you that you study anything about manifestors. You're going to hear raw talking about that.
Vaness Henry:
39:23
You're going to hear Richard red talking about that. Richard Beaumont.
Holly Herbig:
39:34
Kip Winsett, you're going to hear all these people talking about it. There's a reason. And yet they're coming at you, you know, and they just need to go read a fucking book. Yeah, it's just a four, six, right, but like it's the bigger head. But I, you know, as a person who has experienced significant, extreme, complex trauma over decades, for me the idea that there's a hierarchy in trauma is kind of laughable.
Holly Herbig:
39:52
I'm always like, yeah, okay, we are. We are all traumatized. There is not a person on this planet that is not traumatized, and so what we're actually talking about here is not like my trauma is worse than yours and my trauma is better than yours.
Vaness Henry:
40:05
It's just what are the?
Holly Herbig:
40:06
right, what are the different shades, what are the different lenses and can we be understanding of other people's experience of trauma in the ways that it's different to ours? And I think that's all we're saying with manifest, is that even I mean to go back to that that's triggering, kind of like dysregulated trauma response for manifestors. Right, that is really triggering. Like that. I typically see emotional authority manifestors go into fight response me too. Yeah, they some of them will go into flight, but typically I see them going to fight. But I agree that I think splenics and egos tend to go into fawn yeah, responses.
Holly Herbig:
40:44
So I think that even within our manifestor experience, because of the different energetic qualities that we've got that guide us as our authority, even we're responding and experiencing trauma in a different way. Like it's very uncommon for me to have a fight impulse to any kind of trauma, but then I witness, right, not just manifest in my community, but also my son is an emotional manifesto and I have emotional manifestos in my family and I, I 100% see that fight response coming out as their go-to. So we're I mean we're all individuals. That's what it comes down to. Like it's, yes, we have universal things that connect us Well, but we also are living in our own bubbles, even like you taught using your child as an example, my instinct reaction would be to fight.
Vaness Henry:
41:37
That was me, that was, that was my childhood. I was a fighter. So I'm saying that because you and I are talking a lot about patterns. But there's like there's emotional manifestors who fawn. There's ego manifestors who fight. There's splenic manifestors who fight Like it's not, like you're an ego manifestor, so you're going to do this.
Vaness Henry:
41:55
You're a splenic, so you're going to do this. You're emotional, so you're going to do that. That's not what's being said. But what is being said is there's some very definite patterns on how each breed of manifestor behaves.
Vaness Henry:
42:05
You might not fall into that, but it doesn't take away from the fact that that's where the majority, that's how the majority in that area behaves, and that's interesting. And so when you all of a sudden look at that from that way of that's interesting and you do look at the energies at play, it's kind of starts to also make sense. You know and be. And so then you look at the manifesting generator and how they might behave. You know it's oh, that starts to make sense too, something that you have spoke about too in the past that I really liked, especially with your background in nursing? Right, there's a background in nursing. Yeah, yeah, I have a nursing degree. Yeah, thank you. Nursing degree, thank you. We've talked about the way maladies express in splenic manifestors, ego manifestors and emotional manifestors. I would love to hear you talk about that, based on all these wisdoms that you have.
Holly Herbig:
42:49
Yeah, I love our shared story in that space. That's such a cool area to look into and I love how much you speak to that. For me, I think, the curiosity was always about my own experience. Of course, like everyone, starts with the personal, and that was actually how I kind of fell into human design. That I'd heard about human design a lot. It had showed up in my space repeatedly.
Holly Herbig:
43:11
I've been very resistant to it. I was like I don't want another label, I don't want another system, I don't want another modality, I'm not here for it. And I was good friends and in a mastermind with Eden Carpenter, who's a human design teacher. She's a 6'2, emotional MG, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful soul and she's also a nurse, yeah. And so we were together at this mastermind over in the States, in LA, and she was showing me the body graph and showing me the circuitry that runs from the splenic centre. And I had this moment where I was like hold up, girlfriend, like are you showing me that this is physiologically a representation of the body so we can map this the same way that we map our organ layout?
Holly Herbig:
43:57
she was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I'm like so when we're, when we're looking at the splenic center, we're actually looking at that hepatic region, so we're looking at the liver, the gallbladder, the spleen. She's like, yeah, yeah, that's what we're doing and that was. I mean. That was like fireworks light bulb moment for me as a splenic authority because I had spent 18 years with a very rare, very severe chronic liver condition and my journey through that. I spent 18 years on chemotherapy treatment and then periods of corticosteroids. I had a number of surgeries and treatments and procedures. I was diagnosed at 14. That was my whole adolescent, young adult life experience. My prognosis was death at 21.
Holly Herbig:
44:47
And when I succeeded beyond that and then I had one baby and then I had two babies and then I had three babies, I sort of moved into this medical category of like mystery. You know, my specialist just kind of shrugged their shoulders like we don't know how you're doing it. And then when I really went through, it was definitely my spiritual awakening, but more so it was moving through to the other side of my Saturn return, where I became very focused on what is my intuition saying, because my intuition is my connection to my body and that's the place that has been actively repressed from external sources, from my trauma, but it's also something that I've repressed in myself. So a lot of my initial journey through that was just listening to my intuition and following it and listening to what it said about my health, about my choices, about people, about food, about work, and throughout that process, my liver disease, which was in its initial prognosis lifelong and would ultimately kill me.
Holly Herbig:
45:51
My liver disease, which was in its initial prognosis lifelong and would ultimately kill me. My liver disease disappeared, it disappeared, and it was so unexpected and so mysterious that I actually had to go through two years of extensive testing to determine that it had actually gone away. And what was making me sick at that point was that I was still taking chemotherapy. I was still on immunosuppressants and I didn't need them, which put me in the category of being one of 4% of survivors of this disease. And there was even a risk in coming off the medication that I'd been on it for nearly 20 years at that point. And the risk was that if I came off the chemotherapy that 50% chance I might go into liver failure and need a liver transplant, 50% chance that I'd be fine and obviously I chose to come off and I've never. I've actually never kind of revisited that experience in my body. Like my liver now presents as a completely healthy liver in my body, like my liver now presents as a completely healthy liver, it shows no signs at all that there was ever any damage whatsoever. My blood work is completely normal. Everything in my chemistry is now completely normal.
Holly Herbig:
46:59
So for me, holly, what do you think? Understanding how, what is that? I think two things.
Holly Herbig:
47:08
What's always been really fascinating to me is that in Chinese medicine, the spleen is the home of anger and so when you repress anger, it creates inflammation in the body because there's nowhere for it to move.
Holly Herbig:
47:18
And, as I mentioned before, I grew up in a heavily traumatic childhood. I was extremely abused, very, very repressed. I was an angry manifester. I was very angry all the time and I had no way to safely express that, because to express anger created more abuse, created more trauma. So I've always understood it from that perspective, right, like I just accumulated this anger and this trauma in my body. That had to go somewhere. But I also think for me from a human design perspective, seeing that I'm splenic authority and I was not, I was repressing, that, I was not using it, I wasn't able to use it. I was in such a deep state of shadow around that that I kind of to me similar mechanics, like the energy was just accumulating there in a way that turned into inflammation, and I mean my disease is an autoimmune disease, so that I was going to say the splenic patterns that I see is typically, with splenic manifestors, autoimmune.
Vaness Henry:
48:22
It's something autoimmune usually but it usually we're like you're, I like that. You reference chinese medicine and the spleen and the anger. I reference a a lot of German new medicine and Louise Hay and they connect a lot of anger in the liver. When you're angry it sits in the liver anger in the liver, anger in the liver. And so when I, when I had heard first heard your story, my, my first instinct was the first question I guess I asked was how angry was she, you know?
Holly Herbig:
48:48
And then if you think about of course.
Vaness Henry:
48:51
How could you not be? Look at the environment, how could you not be absolutely fucking livid? And where is it going to apply pressure on your authority? In your unique design for you?
Holly Herbig:
49:01
that spleen, what I've seen is that like continued ongoing health experience from that is that I I uh now see sort of like sensitivities in my undefined centers. So it's like they picked up the undercurrent and the undertow and that's now what I experience. That's now what I move through in my health, you know, moving through like gut issues and food sensitivities and cardiac issues and right, and to me that's also reflective of all of the undefined energy that I have in my body.
Vaness Henry:
49:33
I think with ego manifestors you definitely see cardiac stuff. What do you typically see with emotional?
Holly Herbig:
49:40
Very much digestive issues but lower digestive system. So looking at things in that, like the small intestine, large intestine, so like leaky gut syndrome, ibs, crohn's celiac, those kinds of movements, all in the autoimmune family, still very much in the autoimmune family.
Vaness Henry:
50:01
I also feel like I see with reproductive and menstrual and their cycles and stuff going on there, or the cervix and uterus, like also other like the reproductive area as well. Have you seen that? Yeah?
Holly Herbig:
50:14
I mean for me that's very mutable. I don't have an inflammatory disease in my reproductive system, but it's very sensitive. It's very susceptible to change. So even in like eclipse seasons, my cycle shifts in eclipse seasons. I miscarried my first pregnancy. I had three very, very difficult pregnancies, very difficult births, but I found parenting relatively easy. So I think that what I recognised in my body, in that reproductive space, is like she's sensitive, she doesn't like a big load being put on there, and the more that I've accepted that and embrace that and literally just changed my lifestyle around it to not fight that like there's nothing wrong with me. This is just how energy moves through my body and how my body responds to that energy moving. Now it feels so much more expansive now. Now it feels like prosperous. It's an invitation to have a conversation with my body rather than, oh my god, I need to book an appointment with my doctor because what if I have endometriosis?
Vaness Henry:
51:21
yeah, totally. Oh my gosh, yeah I, I have so much like oh my god, I have a headache, I have a brain tumor, oh my god, you know what I mean. It could just really kind of sneak up on you. So you have all this body awareness. You're seasoned in your experiences. You built this platform. It's a machine. Now it's taking care of you, it's taking care of other people. It's only going to kind of continue to grow. Your energy, in a way, now gets freed up. You know and you can still, but you still need to initiate. So when, with taking all that into mind, if you're open to sharing, what is the vision, then where, where? What new ambitions and excitements are you seeing on the horizon?
Holly Herbig:
51:59
yeah, what I've wanted to move into for a long time but it's it's been a very personal journey of having to. I feel like I've kind of been like silting through the layers of fear and of wounding and of even a lot of like trauma triggers. A lot of trauma patterning has come up. For me is in wanting to move through into being a teacher and a facilitator around trauma. I think that what really is my heartbeat underneath everything if I was to like sum up what I think my mission here is and what motivates me, it's that I want to leave the world better than I found it, Because my experience was that people left me worse than they found me and I don't want to have that kind of footprint.
Holly Herbig:
52:46
So I'm very dedicated to transmutation, deeply dedicated in my own practice, and I think that I've been very hesitant to speak to that for a couple of reasons.
Holly Herbig:
52:58
One of them is that that's the most private part of me and so that feels very exposing to say I'm going to put that on a public stage, right, Like let's have everybody see my trauma story, but more than that, see me as some sort of trauma authority, because I now recognize and I now have enough experience to know that as a four, six and as a manifesto. When I put myself into a public position and I speak to things with a level of authority, people are going to pedestal me when I do that. So right that that questioning within myself was like, do I really want to do that with my deepest trauma, with this most private part of me? But then also, on the other hand, I think just really moving through how, like, how do I want to speak about that in a way that is beneficial to others? Because as a trauma I don't even like the word trauma, survivor, just as a trauma okay, I don't, I don't know, because I don't think that we survive trauma.
Holly Herbig:
53:59
Trauma is, I don't think we battle cancer.
Vaness Henry:
54:02
Yeah, you tell me I gotta. You tell me I gotta fucking fight like there's. That's the energy I gotta meet this with. So I'm with you and we're both taste cognition. So I try to really listen when you don't like a word or when you know sounds shit over here. I agree, I do this okay so you're you're perhaps holly.
Vaness Henry:
54:18
I wonder if that's, once the language clicks into place for you, you'll find your way in that. It will, you know, really naturally unfold because, holly, you know, I I completely understand where we don't want to like trauma dump or I get it. And also, as somebody who leads with their story of trauma, it has been so healing for me to share it and it's been so healing to say I was sick. This is what happened to me. I have other traumas that I've talked about and I have felt like I can't always stack, I can't talk about all of them. She's just so traumatized, like you know, but there are places where certain traumas can come out and it gets easier and it just it becomes like this great unburdening. And for me, so many of the reasons I didn't reveal some of my traumas was to protect the other people who were involved, who, in a lot of times, were the ones who were traumatizing me. And why am I still fucking protecting you? You can't hurt me anymore. You know, and I did need to. It's a very personal journey but, speaking as someone who now continuously shares that story, it was so healing for me to to get it out there and I couldn't hide it, like in my past.
Vaness Henry:
55:29
People knew this had happened, but there was something about taking the reins of the narrative and being like. This is what happened to me and I'm I'm the first one to say like. I'm not an expert in trauma. Don't put like I'm the traumatized individual. That's the place I'm coming from. You can think whatever you want about me, but I, but I, I you need to know that about me. Treat me like a baby. I'm the one who's in, who's recovering, or I, you know. Don't think I'm some big, strong fucking ego being. I'm fragile, af.
Holly Herbig:
55:58
I'm an ego being you know like yeah, yeah, I find ego authority like so fragile underneath. This is like these like in the and I mean that in a loving way just nurture me, just love me, yeah, totally yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think that the area that I'm so passionate about, based on my experience, is creating this convergence between psychology and neurology around trauma and our spirituality and energetics.
Holly Herbig:
56:28
Yeah, they're very opposing camps in the trauma recovery process and I detest that because that really deferred me for so long and feeling like I have to belong to one or the other, like I've got to belong to this psychology field that is all mechanical and it's all brain chemistry and brain structure and it's all just CBbt and behavioral mechanics and nothing about the body experience.
Holly Herbig:
56:53
But then I also didn't have never felt correct in fully belonging to the spirituality side of trauma either because in there, right like, spirituality, treats trauma the same as shadow work and wounding, like and I'm not dissing on any of these tools because I use them, but it's this attitude of like, well, you can just do a weekend of ayahuasca and your trauma is healed. No, it's not.
Vaness Henry:
57:15
No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. But I'm sure you had a profound experience. You maybe shifted that energy through you. Yeah, something happened, you know, but you still got a deal Bingo and it's shifted, shifted things for you.
Holly Herbig:
57:37
It's somatically supportive and you absolutely need those body-based practices and tools and they are so important. But trauma is also an injury to your brain and your nervous system and we need to treat it as an injury. There needs to be a recovery process and I, in my personal journey, I've yeah, I've never found anybody that has cross-connected those two, and yet for me, that is how recovery has happened is in making those two come together.
Vaness Henry:
57:54
Your shores, girl, your shores. Bridge those worlds for us, bridge that psychology neurology, spirituality.
Holly Herbig:
57:59
We're both like crisscrossing hands.
Vaness Henry:
58:01
Yeah, crossing our little hands together, I love, okay. So something that I felt was so poignant, I'll shout it from the rooftops, echo it any place, quote you. However many times I got to quote you, I loved that. About trauma is an injury to your brain. Yeah, you have an injury, don't so? So from that once, that's just a statement that just needs to be said, maybe. And then the way we disregard each other's traumas Whoa. So think of this shift, shift. I have chills on my body. Actually, when you go, they're injured. It just changes the you're so compassion. You drop down. You're like, hey, buddy, what's going on? You meet them with a totally different energy. You know, I think it's important to be talking about it that way. I love that, holly.
Holly Herbig:
58:48
I agree. Yeah, I think this distinction between trauma, in the way that it's perceived, as a mental illness or as an emotional dysregulation is incorrect, that what we medically know of trauma is that it's an injury to the brain and to the nervous system, and then we have adaptations that come in and they create trauma triggers. So I experienced a lot of shame around trauma in in myself and other people viewing it as a mental illness, like it's a weakness. But I'm like I don't. It's not a mental illness. I'm not depressed.
Vaness Henry:
59:19
We needed more collective educating there, yeah.
Holly Herbig:
59:22
Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't experience mental illness. I do definitely experience trauma. So, yeah, I think that's. I'm taking my time in edging into that, which, I've got to say, is really unusual for me. I'm normally very direct and very structured and very fast moving, and so it's been a process of trusting a bigger rhythm for me in going into this and letting myself be supported and letting myself be encouraged by people like you that I trust, that are such profound voices in my space, and knowing that the timing is correct, it's correct and and when I do feel the impulse to move into that space, I can trust my body and I can trust my energy and I can trust my authority and it's going to be correct and I'll do it in the way that is needed to be done, but trying to teach myself out of having to prove myself through taking action.
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