No. 18 - Decompressing from Loss with Sarah Branton

When I need to navigate the deep emotional vistas across the Playing Field of Life, I consult the Emotional Projector. My friend Sarah innocently led me into a contemplative space that helped me understand how to process the loss and grief that comes with unplugging from someone significant to me, and even had me contemplating how to best confront loved ones when they hurt me. It was vulnerable and enriching to hear Sarah's perspective on the Emotional Experience of being alive. 

Here's Sarah's Design and Colour Palette:

SARAH BRANTON
Design Type: 1/3 EMO-PROJECTOR
Colour Palette: InDirect / Shores / Power / Innocence

Here's a Highlight of her InSights:

• What's needed in decompressing from loss

• How to confront loved ones when they hurt you

• What to notice about coping mechanisms

• Working with grief medicines to help process traumas

• The impact of projections in personal relationships

• How childhood fears evolve into adult anxieties

• Navigating emotional patterns once you recognize them

• How to safely unleash and vent anger

• And the concept of Existential Kink

Find Sarah at:

• sarahbranton.com

• instagram.com/sarahabranton

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Vaness Henry: 0:03

It's Vaness Henry, you're listening to InSights, my private podcast exclusively for community members like you. Here's my latest insight. I've invited my cute, cuddly little friend here, Sarah Branton, the 1/3 emotional projector, who is a Shores with a PowerView. I love this combination so much. And is this curious combination of an indirect eater with touch cognition, pair of sixes and the determination variable. I find when people have this arrangement, there is a sexiness to them, there is an allure. When people have this arrangement, there is a sexiness to them, there is an allure. And now, when you put that on an emotional projector, it's just gets amplified. Okay, Sarah.

Vaness Henry: 0:55

So that's how we're setting you up to the people.

Sarah Branton: 0:56

Set me up as sexy, I love it,

Vaness Henry: 0:56

I and and just emotional projector, powerful design. I, I'm going to go on record. Not everyone is going to love, not everyone's going to love this, but I feel like this is the most the combination and design type that has the potential to be the most powerful. Like and I mean powerful, as in influential, effective, enigmatic. You know what I mean. There's just like when you see these, that's, that's, I can get intimidated by that design. You know, like I'm like. Ooh, I feel your power. Whoa, it's like, ooh, what are we doing here? So I don't know how that makes me feel, but that is how I feel.

Sarah Branton: 1:32

I mean, I think probably people experience this a lot when they talk to a projector. But I have it a lot with you where you'll say something and it's like a window opens and then you, and then you're like I didn't even know there was a window there, let alone I'm going to go through that window.

Vaness Henry: 1:49

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Branton: 1:51

That was a poem. Oh, influential I mean. I obviously know there's a lot of pieces in my chart that speak to being that kind of person, but I think I don't see myself as that all of the time, and so from the inside then, when it gets reflected, I'm like you, think I'm powerful power view.

Vaness Henry: 2:14

so I had originally asked you to come on the show because I had saw you shared something that I thought was very poignant. It was your take on playing with and experimenting with transference, specifically in the determination variable. I felt that a lot of the things that you were sharing, I was like yes, yes, like like this is the way to experiment and play with this, and so it was very encouraging, I felt, to see someone doing that. And then I invited you on the show and wanted to go and quote it and reference it, but you've deleted your entire Instagram in a true one three fashion. So I did want to check in about that.

Vaness Henry: 2:52

You know, I wanted to recalibrate to the situation, and something that you had shared with me was that there are times when you are plugged into someone, such as a mentor, and the act of disconnecting and unplugging can just be a really significant experience for a projector. You've got that penetrating aura and you shared with me. It sometimes feels like you stop existing, like you're so emptied to the point where I don't you know what, sarah, I don't know. That's not what my experience is. Would you expand on that, because that's not something I've heard a lot of projectors. Talking about this sense of this, this feeling of emptiness, of ceasing to exist. Where am I?

Sarah Branton: 3:37

simply from disconnecting from someone I'm taking it as you are connected to for a long time, yes, yeah, the first time that I had awareness about this was two years ago pretty much, when I ended a romantic relationship and they were a sacral being, so I was plugged into them and I guess internally and somatically it does feel like something disappears on the inside.

Sarah Branton: 4:10

For me it's very felt in the gut and I've also described it in the past. I don't know if I would use this terminology anymore, but it does feel like someone has put you back on a shelf, like you're, like something, oh, that gets like invited in and then put away. And I would say that more in the kind of dynamics that people get, that projectors get into, where maybe all of the recognition isn't there, but perhaps a facet of it is yes, a small part or the invitation is partially correct, or maybe it was correct in the past and something shifted. Okay, and also to sort of lighten it, because I feel like that's a very sort of dark metaphor very quickly, it's also a part of relationship.

Vaness Henry: 5:04

Yeah, and you're indirect. So if we're going to the dark metaphor that's going to really perhaps help us understand where you're coming from, I don't think you have to illuminate it for us, you know, and put a bow on it. I think it's okay to just and you're emotional. So, my gosh, sarah, feeling like you're put on a shelf, I felt kind of gutted hearing that and I was like, oh gosh, the projector experience. Okay, here's the invitation. You know, actually, you know what it made me think of? I had spiraled down some little internet, well, of the Myers-Briggs personality test.

Sarah Branton: 5:37

And.

Vaness Henry: 5:38

I had always struggled with whether I was introverted or extroverted in this test where you can have an acronym of four letters and ever since I went on the roof, I always just was introverted after, yeah, and my little acronym was an INFJ and it described how these people have this door slam technique where all of a sudden, like it seems like you did nothing wrong and they just cut you off and I was like, oh, ego, hello, yes, I do this, like I'm listening, and what they were saying is that you can be perceived as really harsh and people think, oh, my God, what a fucking bitch. How could she do that? No, no, no, no, when it was saying this person, this INFJ, actually has been watching you, calculating you, giving you all this grace at all these things that you're not realizing and they're realizing. And then all of a sudden it could be something small, but it's just the thing that it's like I can't with you anymore. There's no more potential, it's not going to work. This is my survival mode. I'm cutting you off, boom, gone, blocked leaps.

Vaness Henry: 6:37

And I do have that severity to me. I find I will hold like a lot of space for just the human experience, but then there does reach a point where it feels like someone might cross over and try and manipulate me or you know, or it's like I'll watch you do that to other people. But as soon as you come and you try and pull that shit here, no, and I'll tell you, I'll give you, I'll tell you. But if you continue to do it and it's not learning and it's not and it's seeping into my life, I will just kind of like cut it off.

Vaness Henry: 7:06

And I'm saying this because it does remind me of like there's an invitation, you're here, we're friends, and then I'm cutting you off, I'm putting you on the shelf. That's how that felt to me. You're no longer have access, you no longer have you know, which I don't think is what necessarily is always happening to you. But I did want to share that with you because that is immediately what came to mind when I thought about how it might feel that somebody was, I don't know, done with me, if that's even fair to say. What does?

Sarah Branton: 7:33

that bring up in you. Well, it's funny because I have the same thing, INFJ.

Vaness Henry: 7:39

Stop. I love that you know, because I'm not familiar. I just quickly learned. But okay, cute Hi INFJ buddy.

Sarah Branton: 7:48

I think INFJs are often friends with other INFJs.

Vaness Henry: 7:52

Oh, okay, I could see that.

Sarah Branton: 7:55

Yeah, and similarly pre-COVID, pre the end of the world, I was also extrovert, I was also. I was ENFJ before that time.

Vaness Henry: 8:07

Yeah, and I read in while I was kind of dissecting those, I read that a lot of people who are kind of in that wheelhouse, who are INFJ, will get confused for ENFJ, will confuse for extroverted because they can show up and turn it on, be put that sort of a certain charm that is like I'm comfortable in this setting but really I'm not charged and renewed by going out into the world, I'm charged and renewed by retreating and that it can be more of a distinction of whether you are energized from the extroversion or energized from the introversion.

Sarah Branton: 8:41

Yes, yes.

Vaness Henry: 8:42

And like I gotta, I gotta go away to energize agree.

Sarah Branton: 8:45

Well, I mean, and I'm sure you can probably, you probably feel similarly. It depends on the person as well.

Vaness Henry: 8:51

Absolutely oh yeah. But you know what, like my husband love him, he's great, but sometimes I gotta like I gotta go stay at a hotel for a couple days. You know what I mean like sometimes I'm like honey, I love you, but you're fucking exhausting. Normalize that yeah, yeah.

Vaness Henry: 9:04

Hi, honey, yeah, you know, love you. All I do is talk about him and he can't do it. He cuts it out, doesn't let me say these things, he doesn't. So, okay, so more on then, like this essence of like it feels like I stopped existing. I thought, you know, when we first talked about this, this was your relationship dynamic with a mentor, so someone who very much you're plugged into, and I'm going to assume there is a sort of guidance or companionship. You know, when I think of mentorship, I think that you're there to learn from that person in some way. But you then accounted it to a romantic relationship which, yes, I'm here to learn as well, but it's sounding like, okay, a clarification, any relationship dynamic that the projector then plugs into. There is this experience that you have of when the invitation goes away. Perhaps maybe that's with only sacral people that you know, maybe it's anyone with a motor, just maybe different design than yours. I'm not sure what comes up for you when I poke around at all those inquiries. What comes?

Sarah Branton: 10:07

up is, yes, predominantly this happens with sacral relationships. Okay, and in terms of, you know, like, quantifying the kind of relationship, the best way I can describe it is a relationship that is very deep and very meaningful, that then ends or is closed or, you know, naturally finds its end point. You know, like it's complete, not necessarily it's complete, right and so there must be a recalibration. That has to happen, and that's what I'm trying to describe For me you know I am indirect, so it's like, for me, I call it void time and love that word this can happen in a relationship as well, not even one that has ended.

Sarah Branton: 11:00

But it's like, you know, we've been connecting, this feels amazing, and now there's a time, there's a space where we're apart, time to go away, and it's the emptiness, it's the you know cause, if you think about the projector as penetrating and absorbing this is how I view it there is a filling up of that, there's a like a plugging in, there's a I don't know. It feels like trying to. I'm like which way is it going? Like getting filled up with something, I'm plugged into them, they're plugged into me and I get filled up with someone's energetic, someone's emotions even, and for my own health. It's useful to go away and have alone time and decompress. That's on like a day to day level. But then, when the relationship is complete especially if you think about it in terms of an energy source being plugged into a sacral suddenly that's gone.

Vaness Henry: 12:00

You've lost your motor, you've lost your engine. You, you're yeah.

Sarah Branton: 12:05

Yeah, and so I've spoken to a good friend of mine about this before, through a different kind of lens, through a neurodivergent kind of lens, and it is that thing of being like when the other person goes away, what is? What is the projector's purpose? You know, we are told that we are for the other. So if there is no other, then what is that like?

Vaness Henry: 12:30

You're told you're for the other. You're a one three. We know you're doubly personal and you're telling me you're told you're here for the other.

Sarah Branton: 12:40

I had a lot of issue with it for a long time that I could see that that might happen of course it's my same issue I have when people are like no choice.

Vaness Henry: 12:48

It's like I'm an ego manifester, like the whole thing is about what.

Vaness Henry: 12:51

I want you know. But I understand, like literally from a physics perspective, the concept of no choice because everything is predetermined based on your like it's. It's literally just a scientific concept. I'm not going to it. I know that there is like factual data that that supports it, but when my experience is to choose what I want and it's my choice, when the greater story is, but you have no choice, it's like wait, you know, wait, hold on. So okay, as I'm listening to this, I'm looking at different areas in you and I I can make a case for anything. You know what I mean.

Sarah Branton: 13:25

Yeah.

Vaness Henry: 13:25

I can. I can make a case for anything. How much of this is part of the emotional low that you're designed to experience? You know I'm thinking like I unplug and I disconnect. You know there could be a come down kind of feeling with that, or at least that's what I've experienced. So I'm thinking about that emotional part of you, but then also touch cognition. This is the most evolved sense. This is somebody who can cast energy from their body. Touch you feel what you're going through Like. It's so evolved. So when I'm plugging into someone I'm holding and grasping all parts of you and when I'm I'm told to release that I'm not.

Sarah Branton: 14:26

And when I'm, I'm told to release, that I'm not, I'm letting go and I'm, you know, not that you're falling, but you are, in a way energetically, because you excuse me, I don't even want to say it I have quite a quite a significant rejection. Sensitivity is is what I would say.

Vaness Henry: 14:32

Well, you, okay. Well, hold on Like shores with a taste cognition. So that is one of the most brilliant parts of you sampling things in your environment. Sometimes it's going to make me gag. I hate it. I reject this. That's one of your deepest intelligences.

Sarah Branton: 14:46

okay, sorry, let's hear what you're barfing over oh well, I I didn't even mean it like that. I meant I'm sensitive to rejection. Yeah, okay from from the other. What was I gonna say about that actually? My baded in here.

Vaness Henry: 15:06

Oh, you have a big sensitivity to the rejection that you feel.

Sarah Branton: 15:09

Yes, and the and the unplugging or the release of is, at least so far in my life, it's hard to not view it as a rejection, even though it is important and necessary for me to unplug from people, of course, and so, even like what you're saying, with the touch cognition, this is something that I, you know in deleting my entire Instagram, just being it's a real I'm in a real recalibration phase. Like I don't know, Eclipses really hit you Right on.

Sarah Branton: 15:41

Hit me, hit me where it hurts. Okay, Hit me where it hurts. I also got my period on the eclipse, so that was very oh powerful, yeah, a lot. I just came home that night and I was having cramps and I was like I'm getting in the bath Just like boiling hot water, just like lying there, like cleanse me, cleanse me A kilo of Epsom salts.

Sarah Branton: 16:09

But my as a projector, you know, it's like a lot of my life is defined through other people in a way, and I can only. You know, I'm a one three, so I am a little bit self-absorbed, but I learn about myself through other people. I understand things through other people, through relationships. I'm cross of planning. It's like I being in connection, being in community, you know, is there any other way for me to learn about things being split definition Like is there? It's no wonder that when someone walks away, even if they're walking away and they're like I love Sarah so much, I'm so happy she's in my life. To me on the inside and this is also hashtag trauma it's like, oh, I've been left.

Vaness Henry: 17:00

Ooh? Yeah, are you sad right now in life?

Sarah Branton: 17:05

Hmm, yeah.

Vaness Henry: 17:08

Yeah, what is the wave experience when you know I'm sad right now and I have to just feel this? I'm only learning how to do that. That's why I ask and you know, eddie, fucking tips, hi. Um, but if you are in a place where you're feeling sad and you have all this awareness that this is natural for you, even though it feels like sometimes you're drowning in it, how do you hold yourself through that sadness and being put on the shelf?

Sarah Branton: 17:39

Well, I have a pretty chronic over-intellectualization pattern. Have a pretty chronic over intellectualization pattern. Hi in good company, hello, hello, aquarius, moon. So it has been a pretty significant part of my path to learn how to feel the feelings I mean, especially as an emotional right, and that really began in 2020, when I first really got into this work. I'd been working with a psychologist for a long time and I had hit a ceiling and I was like there's something that's not, like I can't just talk about my problems ad nauseum because something's not completing, something is not finishing, you know, and I've got that 42, which, like in a very prominent placement, and so I always want to finish things, that's. I feel that very, very strongly, and maybe that's a third line thing as well, I'm not really sure, but the need to complete things is very strong in me and this is much to my frustration. Vaness, did you know that it's you can never be fully healed? Did you know this?

Vaness Henry: 18:53

Oh, the debates and conversations I have had about this with my other, with my friend Jazz, she's like I'm done being on this healing journey. I'm just I'm healed and I'm like. She's like I'm done being on this healing journey. I'm just I'm healed and I'm like there side eye sip of my coffee.

Vaness Henry: 19:07

Oh yeah, are you, but it was really just like I'm tired of I think I was hearing I'm tired of fighting, I'm tired of or perhaps hyper-focusing on that. But you are constantly, as you're living your experiences, you cannot escape coming up against experiences that are somewhat harmful for you. You cannot escape coming up against experiences that are somewhat harmful for you, and so that re-encounter might activate things that you thought you healed and are in the past, but that new brush could bring up a new angle and facet of that thing, or could cause an all new injury to your spirit in that way, and then you will continue onward and learn how to heal those new facets. I do think aliveness is the journey of self-healing and discovering that for yourself. I agree, but what do you think?

Sarah Branton: 19:54

I agree. Aliveness, and that's like I love that word. It means so many. It can mean anything to anyone. It's so subjective. It means so many. It can mean anything to anyone. It's so subjective. But finding what that is for yourself, I mean vitality, that's another way to describe it. That's a great one too.

Vaness Henry: 20:11

Yeah.

Sarah Branton: 20:12

Like what gives you that vitality in life to meet the world, to meet those hard things.

Vaness Henry: 20:19

A huge shift that I had as somebody who is quote unquote on the healing journey trademark, that I had as somebody who is quote unquote on the healing journey trademark.

Vaness Henry: 20:28

I reached this point where I realized I so clearly saw myself as a sick person that it created this idea of, I'm going to say, weakness and extreme vulnerability that I started really holding back in parts of my life, and and I went on this little journey with that to realize I feel dead inside actually and I don't want to feel that way anymore. But change only comes when I admit that I feel dead inside. From my experiences, it's like soul left the body because it had to, and there's trepidation to reacquaint and wrap around the body once more when you are aware of the atrocities that could be experienced. So it's this kind of you're not fully living because you're so afraid to re-experience what you experience.

Vaness Henry: 21:19

When you ask them what their greatest fear is, it's never really something new. It's something that they've already lived through that they're terrified to re-experience. Or they've witnessed in somebody close to them and they're terrified. They've absorbed it and terrified to experience that Something, though that you know, in the spirit of being Shores people, you did kind of take us into another world and come at this from the neurodivergent lens. What might I need to know about that then in regards to this conversation? How does the neurodivergent part come into play here of that, what you described, of that feeling of emptiness and unplugging and being put on the shelf?

Sarah Branton: 21:57

Yes, Well, I'm aware that people and it's worth saying I don't have a formal diagnosis, this is purely speculation.

Vaness Henry: 22:07

We're among the generation, though that is speculating that, because we're seeing kids get these diagnoses and we're then a lot of us are experiencing the grief of realizing wow, I've lived my whole life without that acknowledgement. And then awareness, and then support and how might I be had I had that? So we are among a people who is being called to reevaluate that in ourselves, because we're all a little neurodivergent and there's it's a spectrum, there's different extremes and ways that this kind of come out. So we're only really just revealing what that could look like.

Sarah Branton: 22:42

Yes, yes, I think that I mean, depending on the specific flavor of neurodivergence that a person has, there can be a whole array of things in terms of being able to feel emotions, being able to be present with particular hardships in life. I would say that wherever I fall in my life, I have been very high functioning. But that's also a very fascinating concept, because really, what that's saying is you can participate in a capitalist society, yes, and you can do a good job and you can be a good little worker.

Vaness Henry: 23:21

You can perform. You can perform In this world we've created.

Sarah Branton: 23:24

Yep, and you can stimulate the economy and go home and do it all again the next day. So you know, using that term high functioning is like oh well, okay, what the fuck does that really mean?

Vaness Henry: 23:35

I love that, Sarah. What does that really?

Sarah Branton: 23:38

mean. But I have been very effective at participating in the system of society and, you know, having done this very deep spiritual work and very deep embodiment and now being in a place where the primary figure, who I associated with, that has now that is now complete my mentor. I love her so much, she's incredible Beck Freeman. Now that is complete. And so now there's all this space where it's like whoa, like what, what, what, how, where, who, and so Sarahah, if I may please, another clarity moment and an important distinction.

Vaness Henry: 24:29

There was something about me that made the assumption should never assume that once the relationship dynamic was complete, I had assumed perhaps there was an encounter, negative feelings, that type of separation, I think, because I knew there was like a. There was an encounter, negative feelings, that type of separation, I think, because I knew there was like a. Uh, there was also like a romantic relationship breakup. I was like, okay, breakup is what I had in my head. But your important distinction is I love this person. There's no ill will. I adore them. They've impacted me, they've affected me, whatever the language is, and I'm still unplugged and I still have the comedown. It's not that there was like a negative per se altercation, but just a completeness, and through that completeness I'm still feeling. How I'm feeling? I'm surprised.

Sarah Branton: 25:14

Yes, yes, well, me too, me too, yeah, and I think that it's hard for our little brains to not quantify things poorly. Yeah, of course yeah to not go, and this is, and the reason why I talk about that past romantic relationship specifically is because this is third line wisdom. I did quantify that very, very negatively. Okay, even though there was nothing wrong, it was just over, yeah it had just.

Vaness Henry: 25:48

But we make stories to you know, to justify why it's yeah and to and to make it easier for ourselves.

Sarah Branton: 25:53

I think of course it's like we're, so we're. What's that? Sabrina carpenter lyric I'm, I'm stupid, but I'm clever I, I.

Vaness Henry: 26:04

You tell me Power View, I am not. I don't know. I know that people love her but I do not know all the details of the music. I definitely don't know the lyrics. I know there's like espresso, but I'm still like I've been drinking espresso. I feel like in my ego world I influenced that song. Shut up, vanessa, anyway no, I'm not familiar.

Sarah Branton: 26:23

Anyway, yeah, you're like, I wrote that song, you're welcome, sabrina, you're welcome.

Sarah Branton: 26:31

I don't know her design, but I did look. No, she has this lyric. I'm pretty sure she says I'm stupid but I'm clever, and it's just about in that song. It's about like justifying being in a bad relationship and all the little things that we weave, but it's so true in the sense of like villainizing someone, projecting things onto people, and I think the thing about projection and like the conversations that are commonly had about projection, I find that they're often about kind of parasocial relationships, so it's like these people don't really know each other and, of course, the projection plays out so like for a fifth line and also for you, for second lines. It makes a lot of sense to me that you know you go online and someone's like you didn't know that this happened to me and you triggered me.

Sarah Branton: 27:28

Yeah, and so it's like okay, but you don't have a relationship right Like I, you know, very interpersonal kind of person. I'm like fascinated by the projections that happen when you actually know the person.

Vaness Henry: 27:43

Yeah, me too.

Sarah Branton: 27:45

Those ones are quite painful for me for me also both ways, whether I'm doing the projection or being projected on Great distinction.

Vaness Henry: 27:55

I have experienced the same thing where, although there is something that has shifted in recent years where I'm more easily able to discern that, I may be seeing a projection that I should perhaps reevaluate here. Am I seeing this clearly Cause I'm getting opinions and I'm developing, you know, and perhaps this would be a time to check in with them, but that was not always with me in the past where it was like I'm right, I don't give a fuck about what you think.

Vaness Henry: 28:24

Like something, I got something that I went through with the eclipse energy that happened in the fall was story time dirty. I got a journey, let's go. I was reevaluating, reliving I don't know, my relationship with my college boyfriend and in my world it was like this guy didn't fucking put out like I wanted to have sex and he had this complex. I didn't want to have sex and I was. It was. I felt so shitty about myself. I was like is there something wrong with me? Why won't my boyfriend have sex with me? And we had lost our virginity together. But he was very, very religious, I was not. And he really struggled with you know some of the rules as someone who was a practicing Christian about saving for marriage. And like why did I ever start dating this guy? Like I'm so not I don't know, but I didn't know all this about him. I only got to know it. And when we were together I said some like really crazy harsh things to him Like imagine how the ego manifestor six, two might be able to fucking cut you. Okay, like, and I'm cut, I did, and I would insult him and his intelligence over his beliefs and feel very justified in that Cause. I thought he was wrong and that's just a a recipe for trauma. And look what's wrong with you. Like no compassion for his fucking experience and I wonder why he didn't want to have sex with me. Maybe it's because you're insulting his entire fucking belief system, vanessa.

Vaness Henry: 29:55

And it was just these like realizations about how I thought I was so right in what I was doing and I couldn't even see the way to be compassionate with him. And I continue to tell the narrative of like oh, he just wouldn't put out with me. Not that I was probably a verbally abusive partner who was insulting Like if you think about that, if I was with someone and they were insulting my like religion or spirituality, I would be like that. You cannot talk to me like that. That is so we do not resonate. You would. I don't know why you think you can even say these things. And yet it was completely justified in my experience and how I treated him.

Vaness Henry: 30:31

I don't like stay up over at night about this, but I just was having these realizations about like suddenly that story flipped and I was like, oh my God, the story isn't I had a boyfriend who wouldn't put out with me. The story is I had a boyfriend I was verbally abusive to. You know what I mean. And it was like whoa, and with the eclipse that had happened to the, a lot of the transits were happening in my eighth house my eighth house, excuse me and so a lot can just be birth, death, rebirth, rebirth. Excuse me, but there is like a sexual evolution and a sexual awareness that I found I was really impacted by. Anyway, I don't know how we got here, I don't know why I jumped on that, but I did. Projection, thank you. The projection field I didn't see that clearly at all and I fucking thought I was seeing it crystal clear.

Sarah Branton: 31:22

Yeah, and I think that you know. The practice of being in relationship is that we must always be cleaning our own glass to ensure that we can see the other person clearly and selective with who we choose to have around us and, because it matters who's looking at you and reflecting back.

Vaness Henry: 31:41

Yeah, I know I've had relationships where I didn't like how they perceived me. No, I'm not that character. Yes you are. It's like, no, I'm not. Yes you are. Well then, if that's how, if you're hell-bent on seeing me that way. I do not wish to be seen by you anymore. Cutting door slams you know what I mean.

Sarah Branton: 32:02

Like yeah, well, I do find it very fascinating as well the way that people navigate projections within our own intimate relationships. You know, like you know, my, my previous mentor. She had so much permission for all of the bizarre projections that I had for her during our time together, because that is her, she has a lot of energy and that is her spirit, is a spirit of permission, beautiful, a phenomenal. What a gift to give someone. However, like for me and my intimate relationships, it's really fascinating because I had, almost like the flip, like someone a good friend of mine, like project a similar thing onto me and I very kindly, like called them and said how dare you?

Vaness Henry: 32:53

Kindly said how dare you, yeah, yeah.

Sarah Branton: 33:01

You know, and probably that's ego coming through, but you know, it's like I love you so much, like well, you'll be like I would never. I would never, you know. And so that's also fascinating as well, because it's like what are the different experiences that every person needs to have? And that's a whole other like, that's a whole Pandora's box about permission for the experiences that we do have and really recognizing that we do not know what is necessary for someone's growth, for their evolution. And this is real 42 wisdom as well, in that we don't know the character that we need to play for someone else and are we willing to play that character, even if it is not the villain, what we would like?

Vaness Henry: 33:51

I'm doing math, I'm mathing back here.

Vaness Henry: 33:53

Yeah, and calculating some little things you've said and some patterns that are accumulating. This journey kind of began around 2020. For you. You're a class of 2020. There was a huge boom in people experimenting with their design and their depths. So that puts us now into 2024.

Vaness Henry: 34:14

And think of the four, I think of the mountain, and there's this pattern among human design lovers where when they get to the mountain, they get to that year four. There is almost like a disconnect or a breakup or a push away from both their relationship with the study but also things going on in their life, perhaps relationships they're in, lifestyles they're acquainted with. Sometimes. This is where we see career shifts and we haven't talked super, we haven't talked a lot about your background, which I find very interesting and I would love to. But just when I'm hearing you say and what you're I'm, I'm seeing the mountain, I'm seeing that, okay, four years of study, four years of experimenting, now you're at that breakup, mutation. After the kitchen on the mountain, then comes the Valley. Here are the people I really do connect with, here's who I do want to plug into, here's who I have to remove and unplug. Then comes the shore. How am I deeply changed by this how has? Like I'm now trying to live and design a new lifestyle for myself that's more resonant with who I am.

Vaness Henry: 35:21

And then we go into year seven. We've completed this deconditioning process. In theory. We have a differentiated perspective In theory. We have been changing ourselves over this period of time and we're going to go through another seven-year cycle. We're going to go through another phase of whatever it is we're going through, but I've learned so much about myself and the world in a way that I'm really a changed person. I'm really someone new now, and so I feel like I'm hearing you go on that upper world journey of the mountain, the valley, the shore, and how sacral sounds are coming out here. Sacral sounds are coming out so. So so you're you're, you're sacral sounding, what's coming up for you?

Sarah Branton: 36:06

Hmm, well I'm. I'm also mathing in my head, because the way that I quantify and count it I associate. Well, I was thinking about this yesterday in the shower actually, I have been tracking Shower load, shower load, huge loads, huge loads, in the shower.

Vaness Henry: 36:26

Downloads Loads in the shower.

Sarah Branton: 36:29

Loads in the shower. I wish.

Vaness Henry: 36:32

Anyway, excuse me me sorry about that sexual innuendo. What, who?

Sarah Branton: 36:41

uh, I the way I've been tracking it is that I'm in the fifth year. But yesterday in the shower I was like who the fuck knows? Right, because a lot of people you know. It's like when do you start counting exactly? Is it when? Is it when you first discovered human design? Is it when you first went all in? You know, like the almighty seven year deconditioning process?

Vaness Henry: 37:10

I know hey, is this ridiculous, like the power that that fucking thing has. It's like, oh, go on your seven years until you're deconditioned, go on the journey. And it's like don't talk to me until then. Yeah, survive.

Sarah Branton: 37:22

Well, the main thing that I go off actually is this document that so I'm you know, I'm a big Gene Keys girly yeah, you know, I'm a big Gene Keys girly is this document that Richard Rudd wrote when he was more immersed in the human design sphere. It's called the Seven Stages of Alchemical Transformation. Maybe Can't remember the last word, but he tracks the seven years through every single gate and everything that happens or is likely to happen to a person is possible is available.

Sarah Branton: 37:57

Yeah, yeah, and so I had been tracking that so far as being in the fifth year. But, like a like we're saying, it's like who knows when it started, blah, blah, blah. Maybe there's big gaps in between when you take a break. There have been times where I was like, oh yeah, this is definitely the spot, and other times where I'm like I don't know, but what you're saying about being up on the mountain or going retreating to the mountain Great distinction For some perspective, for some fresh air.

Sarah Branton: 38:28

Yes there you go and actually I feel like this is going to be kind of hilarious because of what Ross says about mountains. People I have recently now I'm going to say this with like let's just put some space around this because there's going to be a lot of stigma about what I'm about to say so excited. Okay, I've recently taken up smoking as a process and there's a lot to do with that because I come from a family of addiction and it's been sort of a process to neutralize that, because I have had a very severe perspective about anyone who participates in particular kinds of things, and I'm, you know, I've got addict in my veins, it's in my, it's in my blood and so being able to be like okay. Well, I have always had judgment for people who experience addiction, but I also experience addiction, so it's like okay.

Vaness Henry: 39:28

I'm curious if your parents were very judgmental about smoking. They both smoked. They both smoked.

Sarah Branton: 39:36

Yeah, so not so much. I mean my father. He was an alcoholic as a child, so that there was a lot of judgment about that, so that I think gets an alcoholic as a child? He was not. He was an alcoholic when I was a child.

Vaness Henry: 39:50

Okay, okay, clarity, thank you. Okay, like this poor human.

Sarah Branton: 39:55

That would be crazy, this poor human.

Vaness Henry: 39:56

That would be crazy, okay, so in your childhood, in your childhood, there was substance abuse with your one of your primary caregivers, and so you had an intimate witnessing of the destruction that can happen there.

Sarah Branton: 40:08

Okay, yeah, and a severe rejection of, of course. And so the smoking you know I've been I'm not going to say that I'm an expert or in any way, but I've been reading a book about the medicine of tobacco and cigarettes is like it's like okay, well, how much medicine are you getting?

Vaness Henry: 40:28

But tobacco is a sacred indigenous herb and every time you want to travel and have safe passages, you'll offer tobacco to the land to protect you. So tobacco, you know tobacco.

Sarah Branton: 40:41

Yes, so initially I was called to, or the tobacco spirit was calling to me, and I do know that it is a very deep grief medicine. It's a medicine.

Vaness Henry: 40:54

It's a medicine, and so it should be met with respect, but it's still a medicine.

Sarah Branton: 40:59

Yeah, all this to say. Ra says that people who are mountains should be smokers. I'm pretty sure he says that at some point A hundred percent.

Vaness Henry: 41:10

He says that repeatedly.

Sarah Branton: 41:12

Yes.

Vaness Henry: 41:12

And I'm always like take this how you will, but you know where, where I actually in um the second generation human design, which I think that we're in, you know, the generation who is really kind of active on social media and showing the ways, practical side of the study and how we use it in everyday life. I noticed an emergence of cannabis there and cannabis among the mountain users, more than cigarettes Although I do, the original translation is cigarettes but just the natural evolution, like like it's legal now to have cannabis and parts of the world where it wasn't there, yep, do you know what I'm saying? So there's just been this natural evolution and there's been a bunch of mountains, people who I've kind of worked with privately, who really did, really did go on the cannabis journey of being like no, I will not have that it's so bad.

Vaness Henry: 41:56

And then like, ok, I have to heal my relationship with this. And then they, you know, again, it's a plant medicine, doesn't matter what type of plant material you are ingesting. That's very shamanic. To have plant medicine helping you through whatever it is you're going through. Have plant medicine helping you through whatever it is you're going through, yeah, but it's. It needs to be met with respect, because sometimes you can like any medicine. You're addicted to it, you're reliant on it, but it is. It is a grief medicine, absolutely, yeah. So I think we don't have to always beat ourselves up so much when we're reaching for these medicines. You know what I mean.

Sarah Branton: 42:31

Yeah, but it's also and I feel very fortunate to have the experience that I have had and the embodiment that I do have because I'm able to track things pretty well and even when I, how to say, cross the line of my own boundaries, whether physical, spiritual, physical, spiritual, emotional, energetic, it's like okay, yep, you can, you can clock it really quickly rather than spiraling down you're right so what I mean by that is knowing that I do have like this uh history in my lineage of addiction important and that that can be very active within me.

Sarah Branton: 43:13

So you know, the other night I was. It's also about like listening to, listening to the voices, especially if you're working with a spirit or like of any kind working with plant medicine. Um, learning how to discern what is coming through is a skill that I'm still working on to this day and probably will be for the rest of my life. But yeah, the other night, you know, I smoked a cigarette and I was immediately felt so sick and I was like, okay, I pushed it.

Vaness Henry: 43:44

Okay, that's a sign in the body for sure. Yeah, Like again that taste in the taste in the shore. Yeah, so that you're one of your strongest potential senses is that that can come up and that and that just must be respected. But maybe perhaps you reached your limit with your intake. Yes, you know your body is kind of guiding you.

Sarah Branton: 44:02

Yes, and recognizing, you know, like that, that I think that is where it like turns over. You know, I can't remember which Jane Key he talks about it, but Richard has this, this thing, and he's talking about intoxication and how you know, you're having some wine with some friends and you kind of want to get to just like the, the tip where, like, you might turn over, you know, but you don't go all the way and I think when it's when we all I hear is sex right now.

Vaness Henry: 44:33

By the way, all I hear is the tip you don't go over. I'm like maybe it's me, maybe it's not her, maybe it's me, when I plug into these indirect emotionals. My, my mom, is a one, three emotional generator and she's also double six on the determination, indirect like you. And I'm like mom, mom, everything you say is like laced with sexuality and she's she, just she gets a kick out of it. Anyway, I'm listening to you and I'm like daydreaming, like I'm hearing all these like buzzwords. You know anyway, sorry about that, sorry my little, my little sex pervert nature over here, you little pervert, little pervert, I mean I do, I did have this real.

Sarah Branton: 45:09

I mean, obviously everything's going on my Instagram, so she's rebuilding.

Vaness Henry: 45:13

She's rebuilt. Yeah, burned it down, starting again Third line shit. We love to see it. We encourage it, sarah, we encourage it.

Sarah Branton: 45:21

Thank you so much. Um, but I did have this real about how projectors uh, it was a I'm not sure if you're familiar with existential kink, Tell us about it. I'll get to that in a moment. But it was essentially. The reel was about like come on, projectors, Like you're like the kinkiest one, Like you're designed for the other.

Vaness Henry: 45:47

Penetration yes exactly.

Sarah Branton: 45:51

So what's existential kink? Yes, the segue there is. Well, it's existential kink is effectively about gosh. I wish I could remember her name Carolyn Elliott, I think, is the author.

Vaness Henry: 46:06

If you look up existential, we want to hear your perspective on it anyway, that's right, you do. We want to hear your perspective on it, anyway, that's right.

Sarah Branton: 46:12

You do it's about? It's a concept of like everything that we have in our life. We are choosing, even the bad stuff. And so how do you get off literally on the bad stuff, bad stuff in you know, quote unquote we come here, we're born into this world, we come into physical form, so supposedly I don't know we're consciousness in a physical body. What do we want to experience? Probably our souls were like, yes, let's experience some fucked up shit. And so, you know, she in the book, she kind of talks about, um, she uses the uh, the myth of Persephone with Hades and talks about what if this, this consciousness, wanted to experience, what it was like to be violated, to be taken, to be kidnapped, to be held a captive, assaulted? You know, this is all in the myth. What if that was the experience that was wanted to be had by the consciousness?

Vaness Henry: 47:25

And this is pretty like I would say this is a pretty high level spiritual practice right, Because immediately someone might be like of course, I didn't want that to happen, you know, depending on where they're at where? Yes, of course, of course, but we're evaluating on a different level now and and a different type of development.

Sarah Branton: 47:43

Yeah, and this is really this kind of this kind of practice is all about dissolving victim victimization, victimhood, victim victim mentality.

Vaness Henry: 47:53

It's all about very indirect of you, a very indirect light very indirect light. Subject matter the taboo, the dark. What do we not talk about?

Sarah Branton: 48:02

yeah, absolutely, you're fed by it yeah, I am, and so it's like let's, you know, let's go there. And what I will say, with a pretty significant caveat, is that you need to have the experience of some like if something bad happens to you, you need to know that it was bad.

Vaness Henry: 48:20

You know like needs to be affirmed in you.

Sarah Branton: 48:24

Yes, like, for example, for myself, again, the intellectualization. Sometimes I can skip that part and go to what is the lesson and and you know that's a very protective mechanism to stop the feeling. But the feeling has to happen first. So it's all about. You know, you asked me before and I didn't quite answer your question. But how do you feel? You asked me, how do you feel sadness? But how do you feel?

Sarah Branton: 48:52

Any emotion is really focusing on sensation in the body and trying to dissolve, quantifying anything as good or bad, into qualifying it as a texture, as a color, as a it feels, my gut feels furry or my feet feel hot and red, you know. And so being able to be so present with those things, just notice them. That's the first. Notice them, be with them, and then, in Existential Kink, the next. The further step, once that period has passed, is to, when you do get that reactivation and the sensation comes up, being able to drop into it and feel into it in a sexual manner, to move it through, because that's I mean, a lot of people really view sexual alchemy as one of, like, the most powerful forms, yeah, I agree, but also one of the most taboo, one of the most uncomfortable to talk about or frame, or you know and also, in some ways, the most volatile, like things that are powerful, big times, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vaness Henry: 50:14

You know what is in my husband and I have talked about this. You know, when we go out on the street and it's late at night, I'm not worried about being murdered, I'm worried about being raped. That's the, that's the bigger fear, insult, destruction, I don't know, of course I don't want to be murdered, of course. Fear, insult, destruction, I don't know. Of course I don't want to be murdered, of course, but I'm, I'm worried that someone is going to like catch me, hurt me, not kill me. You know, do some type of violating that? That seems scarier to me. Yeah, um, where my husband can't really relate to that in the same way, just because of our equipment. You know, yes, um, you might, I feel like, because the kinship of shores that you understand, where I'm kind of coming from here.

Vaness Henry: 50:57

But I often have these experiences where I realize I have a different basic understanding of something that other people necessarily have, and then it may, oh, and I've got to kind of, you know. So I had one come up in our conversation, so I'd like to share it Please the idea of consciousness and the body. Everybody always thinks it's like their consciousness is in us. I always think the consciousness is wrapped around us. It's not within the body, but it's like intimately witnessing around the form, cause when we detach, we have these out of body experiences and from using, like even if you think about where the design crystal, personality crystals sit in the body and in the aura and whatnot, that I feel like when I learned that, that affirmed how I thought about this. You know what I mean.

Vaness Henry: 51:47

But then there is something, an alchemical magic and braid that happens when the spirit and body come together. That, I think, reveals where the seat of the soul is, and that's passenger consciousness. It's like I can intimately witness this vehicle, this instrument, this form, but I'm not inside it. I can't see my organs. What the fuck's going on there? Like there is like this kind of, you know, I'm not within it, but I'm intimately wrapped around it. What do you think of that? What do you think Shores get things differently.

Sarah Branton: 52:23

Like I wonder if this could be a distinction between the lower trigram and the upper trigram, because I certainly feel on the inside most of the time I don't think I have ever had that put forth to me that the consciousness is on the out, looking in.

Vaness Henry: 52:46

Intimately wrapped around the form. That's how I hugging your form, not within it. That's just how I see it, for whatever reason. Not saying that that is right, Cause there's no such thing. But when I'm thinking about spirited version to me and body and being embodied and what that means, and being disconnected or unplugging, I know there are times where I had to totally disconnect from my body in order to survive and it has felt like I'm floating in the room. I'm not in that form and then you know, coming back, it's like I don't know that I've ever been in there.

Sarah Branton: 53:17

Well, this is reminding me of this video I watched big. Big on the Instagram. Big on the gram, big on the gram, big on the gram. I watched this video and this woman was talking about how her, her. She was positing that we're never, we're not in the body at all. I think it was very like simulation vibes, um, so I was kind of like the gamification of reality, you mean like we're in a simulation.

Vaness Henry: 53:47

Yeah, okay.

Sarah Branton: 53:48

Well, she was like. She was like observe your body, like now, be aware of your body, and that I'm not going to be able to capture it the way that she did. But it was effectively like your body is just, and then we, the supercomputer, just sort of like tune in every now and then to what the body is doing. And you know, for me and my lineage I was like shut the fuck up, like what the fuck are you doing? But that's also because I'm quite invested in the material realm. I know that some people are much more in the gamification of reality, and I have been involved in that, like in a sense. But I just there's something about the meat of this, of the, the tangibleness of things, that I've very I've always been, ever since I was very little like very plugged into this physical world, so much so that as a young child I would cry to my mother about my terror of dying.

Vaness Henry: 54:55

Yeah, that's a natural childhood development. I um, I went through that really strong with my son and that has evolved into he has quite a bit of fear about going to bed because he doesn't understand where we go. He doesn't understand and so he gets super psyched out with that and I'm like that's valid, like I can, I can't fucking tell you where you go but you'll wake up, you'll come back.

Vaness Henry: 55:20

You know what I mean, but it it is scary to him, you know, and and I remember feeling afraid of death as a kid and then being surrounded by death and then being like, uh, this is fucked, this is the scariest thing I've ever like. This is like we could just die at any time.

Vaness Henry: 55:36

That was a really tough lesson you know, and then, which led me to then not even living right, feeling like I was dead inside, just being like, okay, well, I'm not going to try, I'm not going to do anything, I'm not going to, you know and circling back to something that we had talked about. You know the distinction of well. When does the experiment begin? When am I actually on the journey? When am I actually open or willing to make the necessary radical changes? I first read a human design book in 2013. I was in my like mid twenties and was not ready to like, so I took it all in superficially and but then I did start dating my husband Like. I was affected by some things, but it really mostly just brought up a lot of like. I feel bad about my design.

Sarah Branton: 56:22

You know I'm an ego authority.

Vaness Henry: 56:24

That sounds horrible, sound sensitive, right? Oh God that sounds so I'm the worst kind. Oh God that sounds, so I'm the worst kind. Which is so not true, but it was just how I felt in the moment. But I didn't experiment at all. I had no concept that there was a community. I had no concept that there was a culture of experimentation. And only when I became a parent did it come back where I was almost like I need this because I can't handle this reality Like I can't parent. This does not feel like. This isn't how I don't think this is how this should feel. I think now, looking back, I had probably some severe postpartum going on that was not supported, but I then was able to just mirror my experimentation, part of my studies, with my son's age.

Sarah Branton: 57:07

So if he's nine.

Vaness Henry: 57:08

I'm like, okay, he's nine, that's when my that's how much. How long I've been actively experimenting. I was aware of it before, but but not in a you know what, not in a meaningful way, because I didn't have the call yet. There was no. You know, it was only when I, when I went on the roof and needed to go through the Saturn return and really understand my child in order to be the best parent I could be, only then was there. Only then was there the call. Yes, how?

Sarah Branton: 57:38

what did that feel like to you? The?

Vaness Henry: 57:39

call Like I was dying, felt like I was dying. I had I. I'm somebody who I think I take a lot of pride in. I feel very mentally agile and I feel that way because I recognize I don't have a lot of lot to give with my body all the time.

Vaness Henry: 57:57

So I felt I have, you know, my value is in my ability to think or whatever, which is it's not true, but it is how I have felt sometimes. And there were moments where I was just sitting on the couch looking at my yard and I remember I was just confused, like I was like why could I possibly be confused? And then I would get these things that I'm going to call like slow motion, where it just felt like I was floating through, like I was just so not in my body, and my husband at that time, like he has said I I remember looking at you and I could see that you were struggling and she needs help, he's like, but I was also struggling and I didn't have the capacity to help you and so I was just watching you. And there was this really challenging moment between us where I was just kind of despondent. I had had this rage blackout in my kitchen and I had threw coffee. Like I just exploded with coffee grinds everywhere, throwing whipping because I could be violent, where I would kind of blackout and lose myself, and it was happening a lot at that time.

Vaness Henry: 59:01

I was having a lot of rage blackouts never around my child, but having them, which is volatile and unsafe. And my mom came and was basically like to Derek like just stick with her, give her a chance. I was so fucking insulted by this, like I was like you guys are gonna talk about me. But then Derek like comes in after I have this rage blackout, and I'm laying in my bed and I'm covered in coffee and I have like no idea and I just think like he must have walked in, like what the fuck you know? And I have like no idea and I just think like he must've walked in, like what the fuck you know what I mean, like what is going on with her. But it was in those moments where I think I have an acute sense of survival, like I will, I will live. Like that's my first thing. I really remember about my cancer journey. Like I remember the moment everybody was dying and I was like I will live. It was a very distinct and I'm angry that these people are all dying around me, you know, and it was like this moment and so whenever that finds me again, I will live, I will. I do have some, I like some in some kind of urge and something shifts and at that point it was telling the people around me what I needed informing, but then I needed to understand my frameworks of reality different. So that's when I started really leaning on my shamanic studies, doing things in person with the shamanic practitioners that were kind of guiding me, and then, in my private time was leaning heavily on astrology and human design, just because I needed something, I think, to focus on to get me through that kind of challenging time.

Vaness Henry: 1:00:29

And then there was a moment when my son was now a toddler and I was violent in front of him and I got in this, in this rage, and I I took this. We were at my husband's shop and I took this piece of equipment, this big ladder, and I just this huge ladder, launched it with some who knows where this power came from. He just looked at me, picked up our kid left, left me there. I was just sitting there shaking in my anger, like, and it was the last moment that I ever had rage overtake me, because the disappointment of doing that in front of my child was so aligning for me where it was like this will never have a power over me again. Power control I must control.

Vaness Henry: 1:01:17

So it did start this journey of I'm going to call it discipline and a willingness for self mastery and to find the way to feel all the emotions but not let them sweep me away, not let them overtake me find what the healthy outlet is. And that's when variable studies really began for me or I should say variable experimentation, because at that point, like I could see everything happening in my son, I could see what was happening in me, I could see what was happening in Derek, and so I started. I needed to experiment in a deeper way and that's when I started experimenting with. You know how quickly I would be set off by sounds, too many people talking at once. I can't fucking think shut up and I would just snap. You know it's like relax, but like I would just go into a, an absolute rage blackout.

Vaness Henry: 1:02:10

So I didn't like how that felt. I didn't like that. I would lose control. That's not safe for my child, that's not what's, that's not what's needed from me, and I'm deeply motivated by the need. So I think it began this self mastery. I'm going to say that was like really around, like 2016. When it was so bad that it was like there is no real other choice right now. You're going to lose everything. You're going to lose your husband. You're going to lose your family you're going to. Is that what you want? And that was surely not what I wanted.

Sarah Branton: 1:02:42

I want to ask you what your relationship to anger is now you what your relationship to anger is now?

Vaness Henry: 1:02:53

I think this is the most sacred emotion. I think it is the most sacred emotion and I think one of the most compelling teachers is the black woman and how she is so scorned for her rage and shamed and and characterized as just a stereotype. When there's a black woman who's holding her dead child cause they've just been shot by the police, what is a more sacred anger and grief than that moment? Because beneath all anger is grief. That's what really is going on there, and how dare you tell her not to be in her anger? That's to me. That's why I archetype that that is one of the greatest teachers of anger.

Vaness Henry: 1:03:34

Because of the unwillingness to let the black woman feel her rage and to scorn her and weaponize it against her and almost mute it in doing that, when, if you really want that individual to heal, that rage needs to blow out so that the grief can finally drip out of the individual as well. So now my relationship with anger is I still feel it, it still happens a lot. I can't outrun it, I can't escape it, but I can't know peace if I don't know anger, like they, you know. And so if I really want to be in my peace, I have to make peace with my anger. So to me it is a very, very sacred emotion.

Sarah Branton: 1:04:17

I find anger. Anger probably is one of the most fascinating emotions to me because it is so distant from my innate emotional response. It's not that I don't get angry. I definitely do feel anger and rage, but the expression of it, uh, I learned. I learned to regulate anger from a very young age, so that that is not a much sooner cry than yell at someone.

Vaness Henry: 1:04:53

Yes, yes, I see that a lot actually. You know, even though, as you're bringing this up, though, you helped me see I was very groomed into my anger. I came from a family who had anger issues. You know, I was raised by a French woman and so there's like a stereotype like angry French woman and she's going to come out and you know, like and, and all my aunties and uncles and cousins were like that. So it was like undefined G-Center little kid over here plugging into all these people, and how we are in this family we are angry people, you know. So it was like, oh, and then that was just kind of groomed and, I'm going to say, nurtured into me and I happened to be someone who had a lot of anger.

Sarah Branton: 1:05:38

Yes, yeah, whereas I, you know, like Greek family, greek Australian family, I mean I would say that there was not healthy emotional expressions all round in my household, but much more the repressive side. Yeah, uh, you know. So, like in the gene keys, in the shadow, we always have the reactive and the repressive. Uh, my family is much more and like greek, greek lineage, you know, we're all about the shame and the guilt.

Vaness Henry: 1:06:09

These cultures and these lineages come with frequencies, absolutely yeah.

Sarah Branton: 1:06:21

And so as an adult it has been like I do find when other people are angry I find that very activating because, of course, danger Of course, and I don't know that I will ever. I think in my mind I would like to be, but I don't know that I will ever be the person who has that kind of experience. But what I would like for myself is to be able to be close enough to it, that like I always think about it in terms of if I had a child, like can I like?

Vaness Henry: 1:06:44

would's the biggest accountability, that measure that I've ever had in my life. Sarah, it's crazy. Like I would not be who I am without my kid there, because there's things I won't do because it's like I would be ashamed for him to see that or I would hate for him to think that that's acceptable and he could do that, Like I've got this neighbor that, like is pissing me off so much I would love to just fucking key his car. I would never do that because, like, could you imagine my kid, Like what does that actually say? And I don't think I ever would. But the, the thought is there. The thought is there, but he, his presence this is so fucking six line as I'm saying it but his presence is what makes me want to be better.

Sarah Branton: 1:07:23

Yes, but also, like you were speaking about before, with this archetype, this black woman, the mother as well. You know, I want to be and this is like, very like matriarchal, it's like I want to be the kind of woman who would burn the village down, like for my child. You would be In the most yes, yeah, you would be? Of course you would, but in the most pure. I say that in the most purest form, not.

Vaness Henry: 1:07:53

Sacred, anger form, sacred, sacred.

Sarah Branton: 1:07:56

Yes, I was like oh, pure is very coded, sacred. Yes, sacred is the word, but yes, anger in that way is still quite foreign to me.

Vaness Henry: 1:08:07

I'm curious about your godhead right now, so I'm just looking. But your godhead's harmonia yes, it is keeping the peace. Mine is christ consciousness.

Vaness Henry: 1:08:16

I'm like, oh great, oh, that's fun right, I programmed with jesus and my friends love to give me a hard time with that. But that programming, that programming christ consciousness, is very much about um, children and how significant and important they are and how they must be protected. And that's why there could be a lot of wars and disagreements among even like people having huge issues with same sex marriages and them having children, and because it's not because of the sacredness, is the union of the female and male to make the child and that's the most sacred. Like it's, you know, it's very focused on that programming is very much about children. I like to think, you know, I have quite a queer lifestyle and a queer kind of surrounding to my life, so I don't feel that pushback of that, of all the examples I just gave, but where I feel that programming is in real in relation to kids and kids need to be protected and kids are the future.

Sarah Branton: 1:09:11

Like it's, it's strong, it's allowed what do you, what do you think? The? This is just my own personal fascination. What do you think the future of anger looks like? In a healthy expression? And I, I really you know, with the acknowledgement that anger it's just so coded and so and can be so volatile, like and can be dangerous, truly Very dangerous.

Vaness Henry: 1:09:39

Something that I have learned is my, when my anger does need to come out which I cannot avoid, it is always going to be, I'm always going to be acquainted with it. I sometimes will direct that stream of energy to someone, at someone, on someone, when really what I need to do is simply release it. So, like right now I'm, I'm releasing it and putting my, my hands like releasing, coming away from my body, and that's different. It's very different when I say I'm so angry, I'm feeling angry, this is making me angry. It's so different from when I go. You are pissing me off and you are the reason. This is wrong and you are, you know, like, oh, that immediately triggers, activates the person they're never, ever meet. They're going to meet me with that exact same energy and then we're going to go tit for tat. So it has been.

Vaness Henry: 1:10:30

How do I find a safe outlet so that my son, when he is as this little manifesting generator, when he has his peak emotions and he's experiencing anger, how can he be made to feel that that is not a bad emotion? There's no such thing in my world as good or bad. Right, that is a very real thing that you experience. What do we do. How do we actually hold that? Well, we're not supposed to hold it. We're not supposed to keep it inside. We have to find a safe outlet, and I don't claim to always know what those safe outlets are I'm still learning that. But what visuals help me is to imagine it just coming out of me, not directed at anyone, rather than me pointing it and throwing it and weaponizing that feeling, directing it to a bounce and ricochets off someone else. I don't actually want to hurt that person, I'm just feeling upset, and so I just need someone to recognize the state I'm in without taking it on. So sometimes for me, that's just leading with.

Vaness Henry: 1:11:26

I'm really angry right now. This is not about you, I'm just angering to talk about it. You know, whatever is, I'm going to come out and and I'm I'm at the point in my life where I met with a lot of grace. When I do that, I have a very compassionate set of people around me who know I'm not evil for feeling what I'm feeling. In fact, what I've noticed now is like a lot of people will, like, look back at my experiences and they'll go well. Of course, you feel that way, like look at what you've been through. I'd feel that way of this, that this happened to me, and I'm like, oh, you're right. Like if I would take my experiences and put them on someone else, I'd be like, oh, get mad, go off. Like, get it out, get it out. And when people around me do get angry, I find I am encouraging it like that Get it out, say it yes, like it's not going to hurt me and you'd be surprised like what comes out of people when you just encourage them.

Vaness Henry: 1:12:21

They will usually come to tears because, again, grief is usually beneath that because, again, grief is usually beneath that.

Sarah Branton: 1:12:32

Yes, yeah, yes, I, I feel like it's so fascinating. I feel like libras are like what in my life? And probably because I have a libra mars, so there's a lot of like alchemy still to happen with that placement, but libras, uh, have been like my biggest teachers about anger fascinating.

Vaness Henry: 1:12:47

I have an Aries moon and I always think that's where my little spice comes from. You know, I get really pissed, but then I'm over it, I'm like whatever. Moving on, sarah, what's your background? Because I know you're in either production, performing arts, you're in this very creative lifestyle, but I know that you're. I don't know if you're studying psychology or what's going on in the background of Sarah In the background.

Sarah Branton: 1:13:11

Yeah, so my first degree was in performance Multiple degrees people Look at multiple degrees coming here.

Vaness Henry: 1:13:21

Okay, performing arts, okay, we love that Kitchen kind of feel. Yeah, well, girl, I say kitchen because it's like to me performing arts is like I'm gonna go into this world, I'm gonna go into that world, I'm gonna go into this world, I'm gonna go to that world. But then there's like a crew of people yeah, that well, I, at least in the performing arts community that I come from like you know everyone like it's like, yes, well, but I guess this is very sure is dip into all these different realities and performances and I mean like full circle, to like what initially sparked your invitation, you know, like bringing it back around to transference, that we never spoke about.

Sarah Branton: 1:13:58

But, yes, I really struggle with the kitchen. I think that, in a way, that's also my like closing down of my Instagram and also, like this big desire transference that I've been experiencing, I've lost like a sense of the innocent, like I feel very and I think you will know what I mean when I say this I feel very conscientious of my words and how they impact people and how stifling that is like as an innocent person, okay To be constantly editing myself, and there's there's a part of that when we need to edit because we are adults and we're not just trying to spew conscious like stream of consciousness at everyone but let's look at what's special about you, though.

Sarah Branton: 1:14:51

We've talked about this a lot.

Vaness Henry: 1:14:53

Go on, tell me more. Um, you have taste in the shore. So to me, what I'm actually hearing is if my speech, my expression, is not coming naturally and easily to me here, I'm having to filter and adjust my language. Those are all taste symptoms of showing something about this environment Isn't resonating with me anymore. It always will for these concentrated chunks of time, and then not. I am to just trust and be aware of when that's happening, cause I can feel now my body's giving me my sign and I can feel that this is pushing me into a different I'm.

Vaness Henry: 1:15:29

I'm not thinking about things or doing things the way I normally would. I'm getting caught up in some shit that I wouldn't normally get caught up. I'm getting in the mix of things I don't really care about. I'm an innocent being, I don't have an agenda, so, but my body is showing me that the world that I'm in, the kitchen that I'm hanging out in because as shores people, we're always going to be in kitchens, we always have a relationship with kitchens Our only responsibility is to recognize for you, as a taste person, when this isn't resonating, it's not coming easy to me. Something about it tastes bad. I can't find my words or I'm gagging. These are all signs. Your body's like nah and again, if we think about you know you're in that mountainous valley, part of your experience. There is an evolution and a pushback, a disconnect, a separation. That does need to happen sometimes in order for you to go on the evolution that you're going to go on.

Sarah Branton: 1:16:20

Yes, and one thing that I'll say about that I think that, just as a transmission of the third line, I think that people probably have a perception that the that the break for the third line is always easy. And it is really easy. It is Go on, go off, go off. At least in my experience, you know like if it's like some nobody, no offense, but it's like yeah, like that's easy. But you know, when it is like these worlds that you've been immersed in, you know these things, like this journey that I've been on and once again, like the need to not quantify something as good or bad is, takes a lot of emotional, like strength and effort to, and probably mental agility as well. You know to not like quantify things as good or bad because that is so deeply programmed into us.

Vaness Henry: 1:17:14

I don't think that that is the way anymore. I think even in human design it's like we're in a binary universe, this or that. Only because that's the way we talk about it and we emphasize that we already know we have gone beyond the binary. Look at our concepts of gender. We already know there's multiple truths that can exist at once. We've already evolved past this way of thinking. You know what I mean. So what I've learned about the whole concept of good or bad.

Vaness Henry: 1:17:40

It does take some intention in the beginning, doesn't it? It does take some kind of mammoth equation of awareness or something, but then, just through practice, it becomes easier, you know. But it is a rewiring and a reprogramming. It's like when I was trying to figure out how to use they them pronouns. But you know, the journalist in me is like this is singular, this is plural.

Vaness Henry: 1:18:02

And then, going into the French language, all words are classified as masculine or feminine. Like the vagina is live as a, and that's a masculine word for vagina. Like, and if you go into Feng Shui, everything is about all the calculations are if you're a male or a female, like there. So these things exist there and also we are at a time of evolution and might there be another way? And just to have that distension in your consciousness of like this isn't good or bad, what might it be? It opens you up to another possibility and another reality and then again, just by practicing that it gets easier. But the beginning like the beginning of the rewiring. Nobody expects you to rewire and it's like perfect that reprogramming those deep neural pathways like that does take some intention and some time to set a new groove.

Sarah Branton: 1:18:56

Yes.

Vaness Henry: 1:18:57

A new think of the new groove in your lifestyle. Take some time to get into that rhythm, that cadence. Yes, you know, fuck, we're hard on ourselves hey.

Sarah Branton: 1:19:05

Oh yes, I have a very what's the word? Enthusiastic punisher in my psyche. Very enthusiastic, always at the ready. Thank you so much, mr Punisher, or Mrs. Thank you, punisher. Yeah, thank you, punisher, yeah you Punisher. There's probably some existential king to be explored in that.

Vaness Henry: 1:19:33

For myself, you would think about it that way. You would Indirect Just bring us back there.

Sarah Branton: 1:19:39

But yeah, like we are, we are hard on ourselves, and something that I've been like bringing back into my awareness really is that you know we are, we are innocent, we are all every one of us like we are just sort of like large babies in so many ways just like trying to get our needs met, and I love this, um, this sort of imagery from someone who I've been following for a long time, cy Swoon.

Sarah Branton: 1:20:07

I love her work, it's very, yes, I love her. But she talks about she had this thing about innocence and talking about how you know when you're your cat or your dog, like vomits at the end of your bed.

Vaness Henry: 1:20:19

You're like oh God, but then but then?

Sarah Branton: 1:20:21

but you're not like I.

Vaness Henry: 1:20:28

I you never stopped loving the animal. You're never like. What fucking gets me is when people put their pet's face in it. I'm like you're fucking cruel. Get the fuck out of here. People do that. You vomited. They're already suffering. I'm going to put your face there. You peed. I'm going to put your face in it so you don't do this again. Might there be another way to teach that lesson? I don't know. You know, maybe there'd be, would there? Be I don't know, you know, maybe therapy, therapy.

Sarah Branton: 1:20:46

I didn't even think about that.

Vaness Henry: 1:20:48

in my mind it's like I mean, I definitely well we go with punishment to teach, but maybe we don't have to go with punishment to teach, maybe there's another way.

Sarah Branton: 1:20:57

Well, and even if, there is like a correction in the behavior, at least for me. You know, I don't stop loving my cat. Even when I scream at her that she, whatever she did, you know it's like it doesn't even matter. It's just like, well, you know you're a cat, but like we don't have that towards ourselves.

Vaness Henry: 1:21:18

Well, what do you know? You're a big baby. You're a giant baby, you know. Why don't we just we're?

Sarah Branton: 1:21:23

all giant babies.

Vaness Henry: 1:21:24

We're all giant babies and we're just like I need to lay down, so I don't want to lose sight of this. Our first degrees in the performing arts? Oh, but what the heck is our second or third? What are these other degrees? How did this mind? How? Was this mind shaped into the brilliant mind that it is before me here.

Sarah Branton: 1:21:43

Yes, so first degree was performing arts with a minor in sociology, so we were already deconstructing reality from that time. We love that. And then I well, I have had a career in the performing arts for for about eight to 10 years, If I include time during the degree, working as a director and a dramaturg. But ultimately I found that that really had its ceiling for me in the sense of certainly energetic output versus the input, like what was coming back in. It's a very turbulent environment, you know. Late nights, emotions are high, it's a whole thing and it's like it's both a shore and a kitchen and the the kitchen element, the kitchen element of it, is it just stopped resonating, you know?

Vaness Henry: 1:22:38

all shores are kitchens, though we can't escape these. Yes, unfortunately, it's not this or that. There's something else that we could see there. Can we see the kitchen within the shore? Can we see the shore within the kitchen? Can we see the valley within the marketplace? Can we see the market in the valley?

Sarah Branton: 1:22:56

I love a market in the valley right me too because the valley is more like well, what's my field?

Vaness Henry: 1:23:02

the market is like well, what's my marketplace? What's my exchanges? What's my you, what's my exchanges, what's my you?

Sarah Branton: 1:23:06

know what's my niche? Yes, Well, what? How would you translate the kitchen and the shore from that language?

Vaness Henry: 1:23:13

It's the community or the world that you're like. The thing is, if you're a shores person, what? When you're going into another person's world, you're getting up in their kitchen, and when you're going out into another person's world, you're getting up in their kitchen. So you're just hopping kitchen to kitchen to you know, but then you're going to have your own world and it's going to feel a way when someone gets up in your kitchen sometimes too. So I don't think that we escape or can separate. You're going to have to come back on. You're going to have to come back on. We'll do another conversation about this. We'll do another conversation. I want to be respectful of your time.

Vaness Henry: 1:23:42

I want to be respectful of your time, but but I love your brain and we will one day talk about transference a little bit more in depth. Um, I had to do some recalculating, because it's like is she here in a low wave? Is our girl sad? Well, let's just be there in that the fucking emotional projector. Bow down to you and their powers that they have. 

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